Ninja robot? Will he do my dishes for me too? What good is a robot wihout he can do the dishes. Thanks, Tyler Littlefield http://tds-solutions.net Twitter: sorressean On Jun 30, 2010, at 10:00 PM, Ken Perry wrote: > See that's why I keep you around. I am going to have to talk to that Ninja > robot I have in your room. Actually wait that was just a test yeah that's > it I was testing people to see if I got it right. > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tyler > Littlefield > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:43 PM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! > > It won't compile actually, you missed a comma. > int main(int argc, char** argv) > :) > > Thanks, > Tyler Littlefield > http://tds-solutions.net > Twitter: sorressean > > On Jun 30, 2010, at 9:40 PM, Ken Perry wrote: > >> Um how hard is this >> >> //myfile.c >> #include <stdlib.h> >> #include <stdio.h> >> Int main (int argc char *arv) >> { >> Printf ("hello world"); >> Return (0); >> } >> >> Gcc myfile.c -o myfile >> >> There I just wrote a program that will compile in this email. I didn't > need >> an ide I didn't need to drop buttons what I could focus on was the code. >> The problem is you are confusing learning to code with learning to program >> applications. Sure I don't want to start my first full blown application >> writing it at the command line creating the graphical widgets etc. I do > how >> ever want to start with a simple step by step method. I could write a >> simple program to take input in only a couple more lines of code and see > the >> results instantly. If I get errors the errors would pop up instantly you >> wouldn't have to hunt for the window they are in. In c variables must be > at >> the top of every code segment or {} section. In languages like VB and c++ >> and C# you can throw in variable declarations any where. Which is easier > to >> teach someone put your variables here or hey throw them any where and then >> try and hunt down where the error is? >> >> I could go on but I have had this argument with professors and at least >> held my own if not won from time to time. Its great if all you want to do >> is make a sited person happy that they made a simple application but if > you >> really trying to teach them to code and to continue to learn to code then >> you shouldn't lose them in the manusia before they understand what they > are >> doing. >> >> Now I chalange you to teach me to write a visual basic application in the >> next email you write to this list. Make it write a message to the screen >> and do it from the IDE. See how many steps you have to explain. >> >> >> >> >> ken >> -----Original Message----- >> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jackie McBride >> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:10 PM >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! >> >> Well, Ken, as I see it, programming is divided into 2 major areas: >> 1) Learning to think/problem-solve in the way the computer does; & then >> 2) Learning whatever language u need that will fit the sort of >> applications you're coding. >> >> It's a tough road to do both at the same time, & it's why I recommend >> learning something easier at first, e.g., basic, Python, etc. Once >> folks kind of get the concepts of how to use the compiler/interpreter >> & instruct the computer to do what they want, then the next logical >> progression is something like C. But I think learning C initially is >> rather like what my dad did to me when I was 4--threw me into Lake >> Michigan in 62 degree water over my head. Not fun. &, no, it did not >> teach me to swim any better or any earlier, believe me. >> >> In retrospect, I rather like the way I approached things--I taught >> myself Basic, which I used (& rather effectively, I might add) to sort >> patient visits by date for tax purposes when I was in practice because >> my crazy billing program didn't. Then I went on to learn C. It worked >> well. That is not to say it will work well for others. Then I got some >> formal programming training, & I believe what I'd taught myself >> previously stood me in very good stead for learning that. >> >> Each person has to go his/her own way, I guess, but I think a gentler >> intro than C is more beneficial for those who are self-taught. Just my >> $.02--& what do I know? You're the 1 making a living at it, not mwa. >> >> On 6/30/10, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> Actually I know someone who does professional programming who has his >> degree >>> in electronics and only took two coding classes which he could have > taught >>> when he took hem. College is not all it's cracked up to be but that is >>> another argument. >>> >>> I understand that Jess is using vs but that don't mean he or she has to. >> In >>> fact I ended up having to learn the Microsoft build system because the VS >>> ide wouldn't do the cross compile system I wanted it to so I had to get >> out >>> of VS and create the build xml file by hand which you can do. Heck for >> that >>> matter you can code in VB by hand and actually use a compiler which gets >> you >>> out of the graphical IDE and lets you learn to code. In fact you can > find >> a >>> few examples of this up on the fruit basket page. >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 10:29 PM >>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! >>> >>> Hi Ken: Jes said he is working in the VS IDE already. I don't know if it >> is >>> for school, for work or just for fun. OK, let me set my point clear... A >>> person needs to get a good University Education in Computer Programming > or >> a >>> >>> related field to work in that arena. You can not become a Professional >>> Programmer by playing with Visual Studio. You can, however, get help on >> list >>> >>> with Visual Studio and it is fine, if you have the patients, for learning >> to >>> >>> do some programming as a hobbyist. The things we never talk about to > nubes >>> is the process of learning to turn a step by step analysis of solving >>> business, engineering or technical problems into computer code. That is >>> where a University Education comes in.. Once that skill is mastered then >> it >>> becomes a matter of learning a Programming Language and coding up a >>> solution. Using a IDE is just a time saving step after you have done the >>> former learning processes. When I see someone asking to learn to become a >>> Computer Programmer by reading books and learning on their own I assume >> they >>> >>> are trying to do it as a hobby. I can't imagine anyone in their right > mind >>> would seriously consider trying to learn to become a Professional > Computer >>> Programmer and compete in the Job Market without a formal education - it >>> just seems like so much nonsense. There might be one or two out there who >>> did it that way but 99+ percent have taken University Courses if they > work >>> in the field. Jes said he was working on a project in VS IDE, having >>> problems and the process I outlined just touched bases with the things he >>> needed to ensure he did, and did correctly, to get his project up and >>> running. The blurb about learning Programming ie... IPO, was just to > start >>> the brain working in thinking about inputs, outputs and Processing as 3 >>> things that need to be done, sigh, and even that is diferent in today's >> OOP >>> world. >>> Rick USA. >>> Message ----- >>> From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:47 PM >>> Subject: RE: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I am sorry Rick but this is what is wrong with most coders coming out of >>>> college now days. They code by the drop button and create if statement >>>> method. Have you actually looked at Job listings. A person that learns >>>> to >>>> code the way you just laid out whether they be sited or blind will be > the >>>> bottom of the barrel. Some jobs asks for Visual studio but a monkey can >>>> make a form and add an if statement to it to make a button do something. >>>> If >>>> a person wants to be a coder they need to be make sure they are not >>>> getting >>>> themselves where they can be put out by some new AI programming language >>>> that can make the forms straight from a design chart created by a >>>> secretary. That type of coding can be done by anyone. >>>> >>>> Colleges switched to GUI environments to make money because any sited >>>> person >>>> can create a half baked program with them. They did the same thing to >> the >>>> electronics field with places like ITT and other tech schools that > taught >>>> half baked electronics. Now I am not saying a good electronics person > or >>>> a >>>> good coder can't come from the easy road what I am saying is it is much >>>> more >>>> unlikely that one will. >>>> >>>> If on the other hand you start with a compiled language or an assembled >>>> language you will understand what is going on. You shouldn't even worry >>>> about the GUI till you know how programs are logically put together and >>>> why. >>>> Otherwise we are going to need that 48 core computer and 12 TB of ram >> just >>>> to run the next text editor because we as coders are getting slipperier >>>> and >>>> messier because we don't understand what is going on under the engine. >>>> >>>> Anyway I have ranted enough but a person that is just getting started >>>> would >>>> be better to start in straight C and learn what memory was, how to deal >>>> with >>>> pointers, and understand what a register is because in the long run if >>>> you're really going to be a coder not a monkey dialog maker you will > need >>>> that information and if you think you have become a coder by creating >> some >>>> monkey dialogs you will find yourself very screwed when you take that > job >>>> you are not even close to ready for. >>>> >>>> Ken >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:18 PM >>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! >>>> >>>> First, Programming in today's world is a world apart from where we use > to >>>> be. It is so much simpler in some ways and light years more complex in >>>> other >>>> >>>> ways. Programming in the Visual Studio IDE takes a large learning curve. >>>> You >>>> >>>> need to install and configure that puppy. Fail to do this and you will >> be >>>> hearing more junk and losing focus more than an intrevert at a rock >>>> concert. >>>> >>>> That is a pain itself. Then, if you run JAWS you need to configure JAWS, >>>> again better get it right. Then after you get all that done you can open >>>> the >>>> >>>> IDE and look at a bunch of buttons and dialogs that have seemingly >> nothing >>>> to do with creating a computer program using computer statements. And, >> God >>>> Forbid, You try and download and install Sql Server Express, well, you >>>> will >>>> be headed for gray hair if you are one of the lucky few who get that > far. >>>> You absolutely need to configure the IDE for accessibility, pick the >>>> ssimpelest language, vb.net, to start with and create your first Hello >>>> World >>>> >>>> Form from the Form1 file. That is after you create a new project of the >>>> Windows Forms type. Then you can drop a couple of buttons, a textbox or > 2 >>>> on >>>> >>>> the Form1 designer, set their properties and code the related VB Code > for >>>> the Button Click Events and mess with the Text Properties of the >>>> TextBoxes. >>>> If you get that far you will be on your way to learning to Program in >>>> Visual >>>> >>>> Studio. I would start with the Vb.net Express module since it does not >>>> have >>>> all the other languages and is just a little cleaner to start with. Once >>>> you >>>> >>>> get the nack of making a form do things like Display Output to a user, >>>> Read >>>> Inputs from a user and do some Processing on the input, you have the >> basic >>>> understanding of what computer programming is really about IPO, Input / >>>> Process / Output. If you jump into C++, Visual Studio IDE and a DB you >> are >>>> jumping out of an airplane and flapping as hard as you can but you can >>>> pretty much guess the final result. But, Give Up? Did We Give Up when > the >>>> Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor? No, when the going gets tough - the tough >> ask >>>> questions on list and follow up with more work! >>>> Rick USA >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jes" <theeternalkid@xxxxxxxxx> >>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 1:59 PM >>>> Subject: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> All I get when using visual studio are nothing but errors! I just want > to >>>> be >>>> >>>> able to write a program and have it work! Just once! But no. All I get >> are >>>> errors! So what's the use in even trying? Encouragement needed badly! >>>> Thanks. >>>> Jes >>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>> >>> __________ >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> __________ >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Change the world--1 deed at a time >> Jackie McBride >> Scripting Classes: http://jawsscripting.lonsdalemedia.org >> homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net >> For technophobes: www.technophoeb.com >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind