I'm not sure what you mean it doesn't produce standard c++. Despite microsoft's faults, gv++ is pretty good. Make sure your actually using c++, and not c++.net. Thanks, Tyler Littlefield http://tds-solutions.net Twitter: sorressean On Jun 30, 2010, at 10:18 PM, Alex Midence wrote: > Hi, folks, > > This thread hit sorta close to home for me. As I have mentioned > before, I, myself, am learning how to code and I decided to hop out of > the proverbial airplane because my language of choice is c++. I began > with visual studio simply because it was the first compiler and ide I > found that was easy to get to in google and that was free. I figured > it'd work best because it was made by the very people who made the > operating system. I then attempted to apply what I was learning from > various tutorials in this ide and came to a screeching halt because it > turns out that this ide doesn't produce "standard c++" unleass you > tweak it. All the tutorials I was following teach standard c++. I > then hauled off and got eclipse only to find I needed a compiler to go > with it. Went and got myself minGw and was still not able to compile > because I needed to mess with settings in the eclipse ide that I was > unfamiliar with to let it know where the compiler was and which one to > use. It wasn't until I just went in and actually wrote my code into a > no frills text editor (notepad, yes, notepad), saved my file as cpp > and then compiled in a command line that I got my program to work. I > learned a whole lot on the way and look forward to learning more. The > most fundamental lesson I learned was to just work with the raw code > and command line compiler first before jumping into these ide's. This > lets me focus on just the language, what it's doing, how it's doig it > and the act of compiling it. I don't have to worry about a > potentially inaccessible piece of software cutting into my learning of > the code. And, it appears I'll get a fuller understanding of what's > actually going on because I'm doing so much of it by hand. It's like > making yourself a batch of refried beans starting with the raw beans, > cooking them in a pot and then frying them afterwards. You did it all > from scratch instead of just grabbing a can of beans, opening it up > and heating it up on the stove before serving. Best of all, my > programs have so far worked like the tutorials said they would. So, > Jess, my advice to you is this: > > Get yourself a nice text editor like edSharp, text pad, ps pad or, > even notepad which you already have. Then, go get yourself a free > compiler in the language you choose. I chose c++ because it seems to > really force you to learn some nuts and bolts and doesn't have the > feel of some wussy gussied up toy language like visual basic with > pretty buttons and nice forms and icons and all that mess. It's also > the language that a huge number of applications are written in which > leads me to believe that, once I am done learning the basics, I'll be > able to really do something with it in exchange for all my bloodsweat > and tears. You choose whatever one you feel you want to though but, > just stick to the text editor and compiler method for your first > handful of programs and you'll be better off. Whatever you do, > though, don't give up over visual studio. > > Just my two cents as a fellow neophyte. Hang in there. > > Alex > > > On 6/30/10, Tyler Littlefield <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> It won't compile actually, you missed a comma. >> int main(int argc, char** argv) >> :) >> >> Thanks, >> Tyler Littlefield >> http://tds-solutions.net >> Twitter: sorressean >> >> On Jun 30, 2010, at 9:40 PM, Ken Perry wrote: >> >>> Um how hard is this >>> >>> //myfile.c >>> #include <stdlib.h> >>> #include <stdio.h> >>> Int main (int argc char *arv) >>> { >>> Printf ("hello world"); >>> Return (0); >>> } >>> >>> Gcc myfile.c -o myfile >>> >>> There I just wrote a program that will compile in this email. I didn't >>> need >>> an ide I didn't need to drop buttons what I could focus on was the code. >>> The problem is you are confusing learning to code with learning to program >>> applications. Sure I don't want to start my first full blown application >>> writing it at the command line creating the graphical widgets etc. I do >>> how >>> ever want to start with a simple step by step method. I could write a >>> simple program to take input in only a couple more lines of code and see >>> the >>> results instantly. If I get errors the errors would pop up instantly you >>> wouldn't have to hunt for the window they are in. In c variables must be >>> at >>> the top of every code segment or {} section. In languages like VB and c++ >>> and C# you can throw in variable declarations any where. Which is easier >>> to >>> teach someone put your variables here or hey throw them any where and then >>> try and hunt down where the error is? >>> >>> I could go on but I have had this argument with professors and at least >>> held my own if not won from time to time. Its great if all you want to do >>> is make a sited person happy that they made a simple application but if >>> you >>> really trying to teach them to code and to continue to learn to code then >>> you shouldn't lose them in the manusia before they understand what they >>> are >>> doing. >>> >>> Now I chalange you to teach me to write a visual basic application in the >>> next email you write to this list. Make it write a message to the screen >>> and do it from the IDE. See how many steps you have to explain. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ken >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jackie McBride >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:10 PM >>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! >>> >>> Well, Ken, as I see it, programming is divided into 2 major areas: >>> 1) Learning to think/problem-solve in the way the computer does; & then >>> 2) Learning whatever language u need that will fit the sort of >>> applications you're coding. >>> >>> It's a tough road to do both at the same time, & it's why I recommend >>> learning something easier at first, e.g., basic, Python, etc. Once >>> folks kind of get the concepts of how to use the compiler/interpreter >>> & instruct the computer to do what they want, then the next logical >>> progression is something like C. But I think learning C initially is >>> rather like what my dad did to me when I was 4--threw me into Lake >>> Michigan in 62 degree water over my head. Not fun. &, no, it did not >>> teach me to swim any better or any earlier, believe me. >>> >>> In retrospect, I rather like the way I approached things--I taught >>> myself Basic, which I used (& rather effectively, I might add) to sort >>> patient visits by date for tax purposes when I was in practice because >>> my crazy billing program didn't. Then I went on to learn C. It worked >>> well. That is not to say it will work well for others. Then I got some >>> formal programming training, & I believe what I'd taught myself >>> previously stood me in very good stead for learning that. >>> >>> Each person has to go his/her own way, I guess, but I think a gentler >>> intro than C is more beneficial for those who are self-taught. Just my >>> $.02--& what do I know? You're the 1 making a living at it, not mwa. >>> >>> On 6/30/10, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> Actually I know someone who does professional programming who has his >>> degree >>>> in electronics and only took two coding classes which he could have >>>> taught >>>> when he took hem. College is not all it's cracked up to be but that is >>>> another argument. >>>> >>>> I understand that Jess is using vs but that don't mean he or she has to. >>> In >>>> fact I ended up having to learn the Microsoft build system because the VS >>>> ide wouldn't do the cross compile system I wanted it to so I had to get >>> out >>>> of VS and create the build xml file by hand which you can do. Heck for >>> that >>>> matter you can code in VB by hand and actually use a compiler which gets >>> you >>>> out of the graphical IDE and lets you learn to code. In fact you can >>>> find >>> a >>>> few examples of this up on the fruit basket page. >>>> >>>> Ken >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 10:29 PM >>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! >>>> >>>> Hi Ken: Jes said he is working in the VS IDE already. I don't know if it >>> is >>>> for school, for work or just for fun. OK, let me set my point clear... A >>>> person needs to get a good University Education in Computer Programming >>>> or >>> a >>>> >>>> related field to work in that arena. You can not become a Professional >>>> Programmer by playing with Visual Studio. You can, however, get help on >>> list >>>> >>>> with Visual Studio and it is fine, if you have the patients, for learning >>> to >>>> >>>> do some programming as a hobbyist. The things we never talk about to >>>> nubes >>>> is the process of learning to turn a step by step analysis of solving >>>> business, engineering or technical problems into computer code. That is >>>> where a University Education comes in.. Once that skill is mastered then >>> it >>>> becomes a matter of learning a Programming Language and coding up a >>>> solution. Using a IDE is just a time saving step after you have done the >>>> former learning processes. When I see someone asking to learn to become a >>>> Computer Programmer by reading books and learning on their own I assume >>> they >>>> >>>> are trying to do it as a hobby. I can't imagine anyone in their right >>>> mind >>>> would seriously consider trying to learn to become a Professional >>>> Computer >>>> Programmer and compete in the Job Market without a formal education - it >>>> just seems like so much nonsense. There might be one or two out there who >>>> did it that way but 99+ percent have taken University Courses if they >>>> work >>>> in the field. Jes said he was working on a project in VS IDE, having >>>> problems and the process I outlined just touched bases with the things he >>>> needed to ensure he did, and did correctly, to get his project up and >>>> running. The blurb about learning Programming ie... IPO, was just to >>>> start >>>> the brain working in thinking about inputs, outputs and Processing as 3 >>>> things that need to be done, sigh, and even that is diferent in today's >>> OOP >>>> world. >>>> Rick USA. >>>> Message ----- >>>> From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:47 PM >>>> Subject: RE: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I am sorry Rick but this is what is wrong with most coders coming out of >>>>> college now days. They code by the drop button and create if statement >>>>> method. Have you actually looked at Job listings. A person that learns >>>>> to >>>>> code the way you just laid out whether they be sited or blind will be >>>>> the >>>>> bottom of the barrel. Some jobs asks for Visual studio but a monkey can >>>>> make a form and add an if statement to it to make a button do something. >>>>> If >>>>> a person wants to be a coder they need to be make sure they are not >>>>> getting >>>>> themselves where they can be put out by some new AI programming language >>>>> that can make the forms straight from a design chart created by a >>>>> secretary. That type of coding can be done by anyone. >>>>> >>>>> Colleges switched to GUI environments to make money because any sited >>>>> person >>>>> can create a half baked program with them. They did the same thing to >>> the >>>>> electronics field with places like ITT and other tech schools that >>>>> taught >>>>> half baked electronics. Now I am not saying a good electronics person >>>>> or >>>>> a >>>>> good coder can't come from the easy road what I am saying is it is much >>>>> more >>>>> unlikely that one will. >>>>> >>>>> If on the other hand you start with a compiled language or an assembled >>>>> language you will understand what is going on. You shouldn't even worry >>>>> about the GUI till you know how programs are logically put together and >>>>> why. >>>>> Otherwise we are going to need that 48 core computer and 12 TB of ram >>> just >>>>> to run the next text editor because we as coders are getting slipperier >>>>> and >>>>> messier because we don't understand what is going on under the engine. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway I have ranted enough but a person that is just getting started >>>>> would >>>>> be better to start in straight C and learn what memory was, how to deal >>>>> with >>>>> pointers, and understand what a register is because in the long run if >>>>> you're really going to be a coder not a monkey dialog maker you will >>>>> need >>>>> that information and if you think you have become a coder by creating >>> some >>>>> monkey dialogs you will find yourself very screwed when you take that >>>>> job >>>>> you are not even close to ready for. >>>>> >>>>> Ken >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:18 PM >>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! >>>>> >>>>> First, Programming in today's world is a world apart from where we use >>>>> to >>>>> be. It is so much simpler in some ways and light years more complex in >>>>> other >>>>> >>>>> ways. Programming in the Visual Studio IDE takes a large learning curve. >>>>> You >>>>> >>>>> need to install and configure that puppy. Fail to do this and you will >>> be >>>>> hearing more junk and losing focus more than an intrevert at a rock >>>>> concert. >>>>> >>>>> That is a pain itself. Then, if you run JAWS you need to configure JAWS, >>>>> again better get it right. Then after you get all that done you can open >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> IDE and look at a bunch of buttons and dialogs that have seemingly >>> nothing >>>>> to do with creating a computer program using computer statements. And, >>> God >>>>> Forbid, You try and download and install Sql Server Express, well, you >>>>> will >>>>> be headed for gray hair if you are one of the lucky few who get that >>>>> far. >>>>> You absolutely need to configure the IDE for accessibility, pick the >>>>> ssimpelest language, vb.net, to start with and create your first Hello >>>>> World >>>>> >>>>> Form from the Form1 file. That is after you create a new project of the >>>>> Windows Forms type. Then you can drop a couple of buttons, a textbox or >>>>> 2 >>>>> on >>>>> >>>>> the Form1 designer, set their properties and code the related VB Code >>>>> for >>>>> the Button Click Events and mess with the Text Properties of the >>>>> TextBoxes. >>>>> If you get that far you will be on your way to learning to Program in >>>>> Visual >>>>> >>>>> Studio. I would start with the Vb.net Express module since it does not >>>>> have >>>>> all the other languages and is just a little cleaner to start with. Once >>>>> you >>>>> >>>>> get the nack of making a form do things like Display Output to a user, >>>>> Read >>>>> Inputs from a user and do some Processing on the input, you have the >>> basic >>>>> understanding of what computer programming is really about IPO, Input / >>>>> Process / Output. If you jump into C++, Visual Studio IDE and a DB you >>> are >>>>> jumping out of an airplane and flapping as hard as you can but you can >>>>> pretty much guess the final result. But, Give Up? Did We Give Up when >>>>> the >>>>> Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor? No, when the going gets tough - the tough >>> ask >>>>> questions on list and follow up with more work! >>>>> Rick USA >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Jes" <theeternalkid@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 1:59 PM >>>>> Subject: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> All I get when using visual studio are nothing but errors! I just want >>>>> to >>>>> be >>>>> >>>>> able to write a program and have it work! Just once! But no. All I get >>> are >>>>> errors! So what's the use in even trying? Encouragement needed badly! >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> Jes >>>>> >>>>> __________ >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>>> >>>>> __________ >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>>> >>>>> __________ >>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>>> >>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>>> __________ >>>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Change the world--1 deed at a time >>> Jackie McBride >>> Scripting Classes: http://jawsscripting.lonsdalemedia.org >>> homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net >>> For technophobes: www.technophoeb.com >>> __________ >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >>> __________ >>> View the list's information and change your settings at >>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >>> >> >> __________ >> View the list's information and change your settings at >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind