Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
- From: Tyler Littlefield <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:42:35 -0600
It won't compile actually, you missed a comma.
int main(int argc, char** argv)
:)
Thanks,
Tyler Littlefield
http://tds-solutions.net
Twitter: sorressean
On Jun 30, 2010, at 9:40 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
> Um how hard is this
>
> //myfile.c
> #include <stdlib.h>
> #include <stdio.h>
> Int main (int argc char *arv)
> {
> Printf ("hello world");
> Return (0);
> }
>
> Gcc myfile.c -o myfile
>
> There I just wrote a program that will compile in this email. I didn't need
> an ide I didn't need to drop buttons what I could focus on was the code.
> The problem is you are confusing learning to code with learning to program
> applications. Sure I don't want to start my first full blown application
> writing it at the command line creating the graphical widgets etc. I do how
> ever want to start with a simple step by step method. I could write a
> simple program to take input in only a couple more lines of code and see the
> results instantly. If I get errors the errors would pop up instantly you
> wouldn't have to hunt for the window they are in. In c variables must be at
> the top of every code segment or {} section. In languages like VB and c++
> and C# you can throw in variable declarations any where. Which is easier to
> teach someone put your variables here or hey throw them any where and then
> try and hunt down where the error is?
>
> I could go on but I have had this argument with professors and at least
> held my own if not won from time to time. Its great if all you want to do
> is make a sited person happy that they made a simple application but if you
> really trying to teach them to code and to continue to learn to code then
> you shouldn't lose them in the manusia before they understand what they are
> doing.
>
> Now I chalange you to teach me to write a visual basic application in the
> next email you write to this list. Make it write a message to the screen
> and do it from the IDE. See how many steps you have to explain.
>
>
>
>
> ken
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jackie McBride
> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:10 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>
> Well, Ken, as I see it, programming is divided into 2 major areas:
> 1) Learning to think/problem-solve in the way the computer does; & then
> 2) Learning whatever language u need that will fit the sort of
> applications you're coding.
>
> It's a tough road to do both at the same time, & it's why I recommend
> learning something easier at first, e.g., basic, Python, etc. Once
> folks kind of get the concepts of how to use the compiler/interpreter
> & instruct the computer to do what they want, then the next logical
> progression is something like C. But I think learning C initially is
> rather like what my dad did to me when I was 4--threw me into Lake
> Michigan in 62 degree water over my head. Not fun. &, no, it did not
> teach me to swim any better or any earlier, believe me.
>
> In retrospect, I rather like the way I approached things--I taught
> myself Basic, which I used (& rather effectively, I might add) to sort
> patient visits by date for tax purposes when I was in practice because
> my crazy billing program didn't. Then I went on to learn C. It worked
> well. That is not to say it will work well for others. Then I got some
> formal programming training, & I believe what I'd taught myself
> previously stood me in very good stead for learning that.
>
> Each person has to go his/her own way, I guess, but I think a gentler
> intro than C is more beneficial for those who are self-taught. Just my
> $.02--& what do I know? You're the 1 making a living at it, not mwa.
>
> On 6/30/10, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Actually I know someone who does professional programming who has his
> degree
>> in electronics and only took two coding classes which he could have taught
>> when he took hem. College is not all it's cracked up to be but that is
>> another argument.
>>
>> I understand that Jess is using vs but that don't mean he or she has to.
> In
>> fact I ended up having to learn the Microsoft build system because the VS
>> ide wouldn't do the cross compile system I wanted it to so I had to get
> out
>> of VS and create the build xml file by hand which you can do. Heck for
> that
>> matter you can code in VB by hand and actually use a compiler which gets
> you
>> out of the graphical IDE and lets you learn to code. In fact you can find
> a
>> few examples of this up on the fruit basket page.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 10:29 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>
>> Hi Ken: Jes said he is working in the VS IDE already. I don't know if it
> is
>> for school, for work or just for fun. OK, let me set my point clear... A
>> person needs to get a good University Education in Computer Programming or
> a
>>
>> related field to work in that arena. You can not become a Professional
>> Programmer by playing with Visual Studio. You can, however, get help on
> list
>>
>> with Visual Studio and it is fine, if you have the patients, for learning
> to
>>
>> do some programming as a hobbyist. The things we never talk about to nubes
>> is the process of learning to turn a step by step analysis of solving
>> business, engineering or technical problems into computer code. That is
>> where a University Education comes in.. Once that skill is mastered then
> it
>> becomes a matter of learning a Programming Language and coding up a
>> solution. Using a IDE is just a time saving step after you have done the
>> former learning processes. When I see someone asking to learn to become a
>> Computer Programmer by reading books and learning on their own I assume
> they
>>
>> are trying to do it as a hobby. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind
>> would seriously consider trying to learn to become a Professional Computer
>> Programmer and compete in the Job Market without a formal education - it
>> just seems like so much nonsense. There might be one or two out there who
>> did it that way but 99+ percent have taken University Courses if they work
>> in the field. Jes said he was working on a project in VS IDE, having
>> problems and the process I outlined just touched bases with the things he
>> needed to ensure he did, and did correctly, to get his project up and
>> running. The blurb about learning Programming ie... IPO, was just to start
>> the brain working in thinking about inputs, outputs and Processing as 3
>> things that need to be done, sigh, and even that is diferent in today's
> OOP
>> world.
>> Rick USA.
>> Message -----
>> From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:47 PM
>> Subject: RE: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am sorry Rick but this is what is wrong with most coders coming out of
>>> college now days. They code by the drop button and create if statement
>>> method. Have you actually looked at Job listings. A person that learns
>>> to
>>> code the way you just laid out whether they be sited or blind will be the
>>> bottom of the barrel. Some jobs asks for Visual studio but a monkey can
>>> make a form and add an if statement to it to make a button do something.
>>> If
>>> a person wants to be a coder they need to be make sure they are not
>>> getting
>>> themselves where they can be put out by some new AI programming language
>>> that can make the forms straight from a design chart created by a
>>> secretary. That type of coding can be done by anyone.
>>>
>>> Colleges switched to GUI environments to make money because any sited
>>> person
>>> can create a half baked program with them. They did the same thing to
> the
>>> electronics field with places like ITT and other tech schools that taught
>>> half baked electronics. Now I am not saying a good electronics person or
>>> a
>>> good coder can't come from the easy road what I am saying is it is much
>>> more
>>> unlikely that one will.
>>>
>>> If on the other hand you start with a compiled language or an assembled
>>> language you will understand what is going on. You shouldn't even worry
>>> about the GUI till you know how programs are logically put together and
>>> why.
>>> Otherwise we are going to need that 48 core computer and 12 TB of ram
> just
>>> to run the next text editor because we as coders are getting slipperier
>>> and
>>> messier because we don't understand what is going on under the engine.
>>>
>>> Anyway I have ranted enough but a person that is just getting started
>>> would
>>> be better to start in straight C and learn what memory was, how to deal
>>> with
>>> pointers, and understand what a register is because in the long run if
>>> you're really going to be a coder not a monkey dialog maker you will need
>>> that information and if you think you have become a coder by creating
> some
>>> monkey dialogs you will find yourself very screwed when you take that job
>>> you are not even close to ready for.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:18 PM
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>
>>> First, Programming in today's world is a world apart from where we use to
>>> be. It is so much simpler in some ways and light years more complex in
>>> other
>>>
>>> ways. Programming in the Visual Studio IDE takes a large learning curve.
>>> You
>>>
>>> need to install and configure that puppy. Fail to do this and you will
> be
>>> hearing more junk and losing focus more than an intrevert at a rock
>>> concert.
>>>
>>> That is a pain itself. Then, if you run JAWS you need to configure JAWS,
>>> again better get it right. Then after you get all that done you can open
>>> the
>>>
>>> IDE and look at a bunch of buttons and dialogs that have seemingly
> nothing
>>> to do with creating a computer program using computer statements. And,
> God
>>> Forbid, You try and download and install Sql Server Express, well, you
>>> will
>>> be headed for gray hair if you are one of the lucky few who get that far.
>>> You absolutely need to configure the IDE for accessibility, pick the
>>> ssimpelest language, vb.net, to start with and create your first Hello
>>> World
>>>
>>> Form from the Form1 file. That is after you create a new project of the
>>> Windows Forms type. Then you can drop a couple of buttons, a textbox or 2
>>> on
>>>
>>> the Form1 designer, set their properties and code the related VB Code for
>>> the Button Click Events and mess with the Text Properties of the
>>> TextBoxes.
>>> If you get that far you will be on your way to learning to Program in
>>> Visual
>>>
>>> Studio. I would start with the Vb.net Express module since it does not
>>> have
>>> all the other languages and is just a little cleaner to start with. Once
>>> you
>>>
>>> get the nack of making a form do things like Display Output to a user,
>>> Read
>>> Inputs from a user and do some Processing on the input, you have the
> basic
>>> understanding of what computer programming is really about IPO, Input /
>>> Process / Output. If you jump into C++, Visual Studio IDE and a DB you
> are
>>> jumping out of an airplane and flapping as hard as you can but you can
>>> pretty much guess the final result. But, Give Up? Did We Give Up when the
>>> Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor? No, when the going gets tough - the tough
> ask
>>> questions on list and follow up with more work!
>>> Rick USA
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jes" <theeternalkid@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 1:59 PM
>>> Subject: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> All I get when using visual studio are nothing but errors! I just want to
>>> be
>>>
>>> able to write a program and have it work! Just once! But no. All I get
> are
>>> errors! So what's the use in even trying? Encouragement needed badly!
>>> Thanks.
>>> Jes
>>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Change the world--1 deed at a time
> Jackie McBride
> Scripting Classes: http://jawsscripting.lonsdalemedia.org
> homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net
> For technophobes: www.technophoeb.com
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