Hi Ken: Jes said he is working in the VS IDE already. I don't know if it is for school, for work or just for fun. OK, let me set my point clear... A person needs to get a good University Education in Computer Programming or a related field to work in that arena. You can not become a Professional Programmer by playing with Visual Studio. You can, however, get help on list with Visual Studio and it is fine, if you have the patients, for learning to do some programming as a hobbyist. The things we never talk about to nubes is the process of learning to turn a step by step analysis of solving business, engineering or technical problems into computer code. That is where a University Education comes in.. Once that skill is mastered then it becomes a matter of learning a Programming Language and coding up a solution. Using a IDE is just a time saving step after you have done the former learning processes. When I see someone asking to learn to become a Computer Programmer by reading books and learning on their own I assume they are trying to do it as a hobby. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would seriously consider trying to learn to become a Professional Computer Programmer and compete in the Job Market without a formal education - it just seems like so much nonsense. There might be one or two out there who did it that way but 99+ percent have taken University Courses if they work in the field. Jes said he was working on a project in VS IDE, having problems and the process I outlined just touched bases with the things he needed to ensure he did, and did correctly, to get his project up and running. The blurb about learning Programming ie... IPO, was just to start the brain working in thinking about inputs, outputs and Processing as 3 things that need to be done, sigh, and even that is diferent in today's OOP world.
Rick USA.Message ----- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:47 PM Subject: RE: I feel like giving up on programming altogether!
I am sorry Rick but this is what is wrong with most coders coming out of college now days. They code by the drop button and create if statementmethod. Have you actually looked at Job listings. A person that learns tocode the way you just laid out whether they be sited or blind will be the bottom of the barrel. Some jobs asks for Visual studio but a monkey canmake a form and add an if statement to it to make a button do something. If a person wants to be a coder they need to be make sure they are not gettingthemselves where they can be put out by some new AI programming language that can make the forms straight from a design chart created by a secretary. That type of coding can be done by anyone.Colleges switched to GUI environments to make money because any sited personcan create a half baked program with them. They did the same thing to the electronics field with places like ITT and other tech schools that taughthalf baked electronics. Now I am not saying a good electronics person or a good coder can't come from the easy road what I am saying is it is much moreunlikely that one will. If on the other hand you start with a compiled language or an assembled language you will understand what is going on. You shouldn't even worryabout the GUI till you know how programs are logically put together and why.Otherwise we are going to need that 48 core computer and 12 TB of ram justto run the next text editor because we as coders are getting slipperier andmessier because we don't understand what is going on under the engine.Anyway I have ranted enough but a person that is just getting started would be better to start in straight C and learn what memory was, how to deal withpointers, and understand what a register is because in the long run if you're really going to be a coder not a monkey dialog maker you will need that information and if you think you have become a coder by creating some monkey dialogs you will find yourself very screwed when you take that job you are not even close to ready for. Ken -----Original Message----- From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of RicksPlace Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:18 PM To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! First, Programming in today's world is a world apart from where we use tobe. It is so much simpler in some ways and light years more complex in otherways. Programming in the Visual Studio IDE takes a large learning curve. Youneed to install and configure that puppy. Fail to do this and you will behearing more junk and losing focus more than an intrevert at a rock concert.That is a pain itself. Then, if you run JAWS you need to configure JAWS,again better get it right. Then after you get all that done you can open theIDE and look at a bunch of buttons and dialogs that have seemingly nothing to do with creating a computer program using computer statements. And, GodForbid, You try and download and install Sql Server Express, well, you willbe headed for gray hair if you are one of the lucky few who get that far. You absolutely need to configure the IDE for accessibility, pick thessimpelest language, vb.net, to start with and create your first Hello WorldForm from the Form1 file. That is after you create a new project of theWindows Forms type. Then you can drop a couple of buttons, a textbox or 2 onthe Form1 designer, set their properties and code the related VB Code forthe Button Click Events and mess with the Text Properties of the TextBoxes. If you get that far you will be on your way to learning to Program in VisualStudio. I would start with the Vb.net Express module since it does not have all the other languages and is just a little cleaner to start with. Once youget the nack of making a form do things like Display Output to a user, ReadInputs from a user and do some Processing on the input, you have the basic understanding of what computer programming is really about IPO, Input / Process / Output. If you jump into C++, Visual Studio IDE and a DB you are jumping out of an airplane and flapping as hard as you can but you can pretty much guess the final result. But, Give Up? Did We Give Up when the Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor? No, when the going gets tough - the tough ask questions on list and follow up with more work! Rick USA----- Original Message ----- From: "Jes" <theeternalkid@xxxxxxxxx>To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 1:59 PM Subject: I feel like giving up on programming altogether! Hi all,All I get when using visual studio are nothing but errors! I just want to beable to write a program and have it work! Just once! But no. All I get are errors! So what's the use in even trying? Encouragement needed badly! Thanks. Jes __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
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