[lit-ideas] Re: Paying taxes for months on end
- From: "Mike Geary" <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 13:42:45 -0500
Phil Enns wrote:
> Inalienable rights
> arise from who we are as persons, not from circumstances.
I have no idea how RP will answer you, but I disagree. Inalienable rights
arise from the community saying these rights are inalienable rights. Every
thing arises from out of the community (except those communities under the
gun -- which all are to some degree). There's no absolute inalienable
right. There are rights arising from logical consistency with principles
taken as basic to a given culture because that culture holds those
principles as basic.
Mike Geary
waxing philosophical in Memphis
where wax is more than a museum,
it's what bees do.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Enns" <phil.enns@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 1:16 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Paying taxes for months on end
> Robert Paul suggests that one can have an inalienable right to something
> but
> have no need for it. I can make no sense of this. Take for instance the
> right to life as protection from violence. This right does not depend on
> whether at any particular moment I need the police because the right
> pertains to my personhood as opposed to any contingency. Inalienable
> rights
> arise from who we are as persons, not from circumstances. It may be that
> government grants rights, such as to healthcare and education, rights
> which
> people like Melinda Gates have no need for, but these are not inalienable
> rights and would be better off not being referred to as rights. If one
> doesn't need a right, it can't be an inalienable right.
>
>
> Robert: "One could reasonably say that I have a right to free speech even
> though as a matter of fact nothing I say offends anybody or goes counter
> to
> anyone else’s beliefs."
>
> However, the right to free speech, which isn't an inalienable right, does
> not depend on the content of one's speech. Rather, it is a right that
> arises out of a particular politics which can only function when people
> are
> largely free to say what they like, even when what they say is banal or
> inane. While the right to free speech is not an inalienable right, it has
> the form of one in that it is a right one has even if one doesn't bother
> speaking out.
>
>
> Robert: "I’m not even saying that everyone does have a right to an
> education, although I would like to bring it about that something like
> that
> were true."
>
> But this is precisely the state of affairs that cannot be true of an
> inalienable right. One has these rights regardless of what government is
> in
> place or the state of that government. Inalienable rights derive from
> personhood, not contingent circumstances. Inalienable rights do not
> depend
> on whether one wants to exercise them or not because they are not
> dependent
> on one's volition or desire. We do not ask whether potential victims want
> to be harmed before stopping a potential murderer.
>
>
> Robert: "I’m not talking about how it is or ought to be in other times and
> places but about rights in the US only."
>
> Fine. But if these rights are to be derived from the notion of an
> inalienable right, then the issue is necessarily a universal one.
>
>
> Robert: "I doubt [the conditions under which the government satisfies its
> duty to the right of maintenance of life]can be decided by sitting in a
> room
> with the shades drawn."
>
> And what do you suppose the Supremes are doing when they decide? Of
> course
> 'sitting in a room with the shades drawn' is an important part of working
> these issues out, though not all that is needed.
>
>
> Robert: "That a right is universal, absolute, or inalienable doesn’t mean
> that it applies only to goods and conditions that cannot be described,
> lest
> the right suddenly become itself contingent."
>
> Of course not. What makes it contingent is its application. How does one
> determine that a right bears on a situation without reference to goods?
>
>
> As always, thanks to Robert for his responses.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Phil Enns
> Toronto, ON
>
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