[SI-LIST] Re: anti-resonance point when use Embedded Capacitance Material
- From: Michael Greim <mgreim001@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: istvan.novak@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 07:57:14 -0500
That's a great point Istvan. During an interview yesterday I was using the
tree falling in the woods analogy. If a tree falls in the woods and there
is no
one there to hear, does it really matter if it makes a sound and why do you
care?.....;-)
or conversely, don't fix what isn't broken.
-Michael.
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Istvan Novak <istvan.novak@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
> Hi Bruce,
>
> The anti-resonance between the static capacitance of planes and
> inductance of bypass capacitors will always be present unless you either
> match the plane impedance with the ESRs of capacitors or overwhelm the
> antiresonance with MANY low-inductance bypass capacitors. The
> antiresonance is present with any laminate material, thin or thick.
> When you use thin laminates (Embedded Capacitance Material), the
> resonance magnitude and frequency both get lower with respect to a
> thicker laminate. First you have to determine whether the resonance
> causes a problem for power, signal integrity and EMI. If you dont
> excite the resonance, you dont need to care.
>
> Regards,
>
> Istvan Novak
> Oracle
>
>
>
>
> On 5/9/2013 2:26 AM, Bruce wrote:
> > Hi Expert
> >
> >
> > We use Embedded Capacitance Material for better PDN and less capacitor
> > component. According to PDN Simulation. We notice that is an
> anti-resonance
> > point between capacitor and Plane.
> >
> >
> >
> > We can find that when use Embedded Capacitance Material. There are much
> > better in most frequency but near anti-resonance point.
> >
> >
> >
> > In this case. We have to solution.
> >
> > 1. Try to reduce the anti-resonance point. We need many high
> frequency
> > capacitor component. That is not good because we want to reduce the
> number
> > of capacitor component. Our purpose is reduce 70% number of capacitor
> > component.
> >
> > 2. Keep this anti-resonance point. That maybe have a risk if there is
> > some noise by chance in this frequency
> >
> >
> >
> > How about your suggestion? Please let me know if my question is not clear
> > enough.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Bruce Wu
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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--
-Michael.
We will either find a way or make one - Hannibal
In the middle of every difficulty lies opportunity - Al Einstein
If you think you can do something or you think
you can't, in both cases you are probably right - H Ford
If you're not getting the results you want with the
current approach, move on and try something else. - A. Fleischmann
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