[SI-LIST] Re: anti-resonance point when use Embedded Capacitance Material
- From: Ken Wyatt <ken@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: bruce@xxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 06:00:58 -0700
Hi Group & Bruce,
I'm kind of a "newby" when it comes to SI, but am reading Lee Richey's books on
the subject.
One thing he recommends for PDN designs is the use of bypass capacitors with a
more lossy dielectric (higher ESR), such as X5R, Z5U or Y5V, to dampen the
anti-resonance. Would this be a reasonable thing to try?
Ken
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On May 9, 2013, at 5:16 AM, Istvan Novak wrote:
> Hi Bruce,
>
> The anti-resonance between the static capacitance of planes and
> inductance of bypass capacitors will always be present unless you either
> match the plane impedance with the ESRs of capacitors or overwhelm the
> antiresonance with MANY low-inductance bypass capacitors. The
> antiresonance is present with any laminate material, thin or thick.
> When you use thin laminates (Embedded Capacitance Material), the
> resonance magnitude and frequency both get lower with respect to a
> thicker laminate. First you have to determine whether the resonance
> causes a problem for power, signal integrity and EMI. If you dont
> excite the resonance, you dont need to care.
>
> Regards,
>
> Istvan Novak
> Oracle
>
>
>
>
> On 5/9/2013 2:26 AM, Bruce wrote:
>> Hi Expert
>>
>>
>> We use Embedded Capacitance Material for better PDN and less capacitor
>> component. According to PDN Simulation. We notice that is an anti-resonance
>> point between capacitor and Plane.
>>
>>
>>
>> We can find that when use Embedded Capacitance Material. There are much
>> better in most frequency but near anti-resonance point.
>>
>>
>>
>> In this case. We have to solution.
>>
>> 1. Try to reduce the anti-resonance point. We need many high frequency
>> capacitor component. That is not good because we want to reduce the number
>> of capacitor component. Our purpose is reduce 70% number of capacitor
>> component.
>>
>> 2. Keep this anti-resonance point. That maybe have a risk if there is
>> some noise by chance in this frequency
>>
>>
>>
>> How about your suggestion? Please let me know if my question is not clear
>> enough.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Bruce Wu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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