[SI-LIST] Re: anti-resonance point when use Embedded Capacitance Material
- From: <dbrooks9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: ken@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 16:33:44 -0700
You might find my early article on this subject (back in 2000) in=
teresting. It explains the theory behind Lee's suggestions. The article is
"ESR and Bypass Capacitor Self Resonant Behavior: = How to Select Bypass
Caps" and you can find it here:http://www.ultracad.com/article=
_outline.htm[1]
I also have a chapter on this in my ne= w book "Current: How it Flows, How
it Reacts" (Prentice Hall) publication d= ate 5/17
Doug Brooks
=
=0A=0A-------= - Original Message --------
=0ASubject: [SI-LIST] Re: anti-resonance poi= nt when use Embedded
=0ACapacitance Material
=0AFrom: Ken Wyatt <ken@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[1]>
=0AD= ate: Thu, May 09, 2013 6:00 am
=0ATo: bruce@xxxxxxxxxx[2]
=0ACc: s= i-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[3], istva= n.novak@xxxxxxxxxxx[4]
=0A
=0AHi Group &Bruce,
=0AI'm kind o= f a "newby" when it comes to SI, but am reading Lee Richey's
books on the s= ubject.
=0A
=0AOne thing he recommends for PDN designs is the use of = bypass capacitors
with a more lossy dielectric (higher ESR), such as X5R, Z= 5U or Y5V, to
dampen the anti-resonance. Would this be a reasonable thing t= o try?
=0A
=0AKen
=0A___________________
=0AKenneth Wyatt
= =0AWyatt Technical Services LLC
=0AWoodland Park, CO
=0Aken@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[5]
=0AWeb Newsletter=0AConnect with me on LinkedIn!
=0A
=0AOn May 9, 2013, at 5:16 AM, = Istvan Novak wrote:
=0A
=0A> Hi Bruce,
=0A>
=0A> The = anti-resonance between the static capacitance of planes and
=0A> ind= uctance of bypass capacitors will always be present unless you
either
= =0A> match the plane impedance with the ESRs of capacitors or overwhelm =
the
=0A> antiresonance with MANY low-inductance bypass capacitors. = The
=0A> antiresonance is present with any laminate material, thin o= r thick.
=0A> When you use thin laminates (Embedded Capacitance Mat= erial), the
=0A> resonance magnitude and frequency both get lower wi= th respect to a
=0A> thicker laminate. First you have to determine = whether the resonance
=0A> causes a problem for power, signal integr= ity and EMI. If you dont
=0A> excite the resonance, you dont need t= o care.
=0A>
=0A> Regards,
=0A>
=0A> Istvan Novak=
=0A> Oracle
=0A>
=0A>
=0A>
=0A>
=0A&g= t; On 5/9/2013 2:26 AM, Bruce wrote:
=0A>> Hi Expert
=0A>>= ;
=0A>>
=0A>> We use Embedded Capacitance Material for = better PDN and less
capacitor
=0A>> component. According to PDN Si= mulation. We notice that is an
anti-resonance
=0A>> point between = capacitor and Plane.
=0A>>
=0A>>
=0A>>
=0A= >>We can find that when use Embedded Capacitance Material. There are=
much
=0A>> better in most frequency but near anti-resonance point= .
=0A>>
=0A>>
=0A>>
=0A>> In this ca= se. We have to solution.
=0A>>
=0A>> 1. Try to reduc= e the anti-resonance point. We need many high
frequency
=0A>> capa= citor component. That is not good because we want to reduce the
number
= =0A>> of capacitor component. Our purpose is reduce 70% number of cap=
acitor
=0A>> component.
=0A>>
=0A>> 2. Keep= this anti-resonance point. That maybe have a risk if there is
=0A>&g= t; some noise by chance in this frequency
=0A>>
=0A>> =0A>>
=0A>> How about your suggestion? Please let me kno= w if my question is not
clear
=0A>> enough.
=0A>>
=0A= >>Thanks
=0A>>
=0A>>
=0A>>
=0A>&= gt; Best Regards,
=0A>>
=0A>> Bruce Wu
=0A>> =0A>>
=0A>>
=0A>>
=0A>
=0A>
= =0A>
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