ok, im cool with the spirit nodes thing, sounds good. hey question though - and this is a bit off from what i was thinking initially (you brought up good points and changed my mind re: this) -- i think if you die, you go back to the node but w/ the experience but i dont think you should keep items you found, etc. like if you went into a cave to retrieve some crazy weapon, you shouldnt be able to grab it and die and start back at the beginning... should definitely survive a round trip. Maybe the hero gets one "knock out" before dying and going back to the spirit node, if that makes sense. that way they get a second chance but they can still die. On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > I dont think that would be enough to balance it just because for instance > you know how you wanted to make a labyrinth? > > you could just grind your way to the bottom level losing every fight. > > but, i guess a way to stop that would be to have periodic enemies which > blocked your path, or like the ones that ambush you, so you could never get > passed them until you beat them. > > Also does not being able to die kind of lose the sense of danger in the > game? Cause basically you know you can go anywhere and do anything and at > worst you'll just have to walk back. > > Hey eric... what about this... > > What if we use the spirit nodes like checkpoints where when you die you > get teleported back there just like your buddies would (basically it'll > teleport you back to the last one you were at). > > You keep your gold, exp and loot you've found, but you get sent back to the > last spirit node you visited, and maybe only the hero is left alive (and > maybe not full health)? > > > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:40 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> switching out would be someones option when it was their turn, theres no >> penalty except the loss of a turn, and it's definitely smart and part of the >> strategy to swap out a dying dude (maybe being stunned, etc would prevent a >> swap out though) for a fresh guy. >> >> i like the idea of using marvel vs capcom as a reference, there will >> probably be two health parts like in that game, where you can heal to a >> certain extent (both in battle and out). actually, marvel vs capcom is >> basically exactly how i envisioned it and is perfect to express it. this >> way people can "heal" if they are hurt but can only heal so far due to >> permanent injuries (which can only be fixed in town or at a node). this is >> a great way to balance combat where people can sustain injuries and have >> those injuries mean something, but also people can heal and not be totally >> just drained whenever they get hit... wow i really really like this, great >> thought alan :) >> >> we're definitely on the same page as far as holding/grabbing/net stuff >> goes, i think that will be way awesome and add depth/balance. the more cool >> skills we can have for different types, the easier it'll be to balance so >> everyone has awesome skills that makes them appealing to the player. >> >> as far as the hero never dying... if they came up against a boss they >> couldnt beat, and their party was dead, they wouldnt be able to go on, >> they'd be forced to recall because they wouldnt have enough juice to get >> past certain enemies. would that be enough to balance that? >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >> >>> I think switching out your characters could work, that kinda sounds cool >>> and i can picture it in my head. >>> >>> When you would switch, would you be able to switch any turn of combat, >>> only the first, or what? Also is there a penalty to switching or is it for >>> free? I'm just curious cause if one guy was dying you could swap him out >>> with another and have a fresh guy, is that ok? >>> >>> If so we could do soemthing like marvel vs capcom i think it was, where >>> the team mates that are in the back row and not fighting slowly heal their >>> wounds (in this case they heal a small amount as round time progresses) what >>> you think? If that is too overpowered, it could be something like they can >>> only heal maximum up to the life they had before they got struck in the >>> current battle. >>> >>> Being held by one character and attacked by another makes sense. Maybe >>> its a skill, and what happens is when you use that skill, the character that >>> used it has to keep using it each turn to hold onto the monster and that >>> monster basically struggles each turn where it has some chance to escape but >>> that uses up it's turn. Just like real life if you oare outnumbered, >>> grabbing hold of someone or wrestling around with them wouldnt be a good >>> idea cause his buddies would kick your butt, but if there is like 1 monster >>> left it could be a cool skill. Like havin a guy like sabin be able to grab >>> the last enemy and hold him while your other guys hit him would be a pretty >>> useful skill (: >>> >>> About the player never dying, on one hand i could see that working but on >>> the other, couldnt you just scrape through anyhwere by walking through a >>> dungeon and getting knocked out at each fight? How do you balance that out? >>> >>> Some cool ideas! >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:36 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>>> ok here is how i am thinking parties will work in combat... >>>> >>>> there will be 3 active party members in any fight and 4 on the sidelines >>>> that can be "tagged in" (swapped) as a combat option for any of the active >>>> players INCLUDING the hero. this will allow you to sub out injured >>>> characters for fresh healthy ones, or if you want two people that can do a >>>> special attack, you can have them sub in to pull of a coup de grace, or >>>> maybe there is a MATCHUP you want to exploit. >>>> >>>> Matchups? Huh? >>>> >>>> Matchups are basically already existing in games but without anything to >>>> quantify them. basically, if you're in battle against a big slow ogre or >>>> something, you can adjust your party to better match up w/ the enemy >>>> (enemies) you're fighting. Maybe you want a big dude that can go >>>> mano-y-mano with the ogre, or a small quick dude who can exploit the ogre's >>>> plodding attack and slow defense. Maybe you're up against a flying >>>> creature >>>> and arrows will be the best way to bring them down when standard attacks >>>> seem ineffectual. Picking the best match up for what you're going against >>>> can mean the difference of life and death. >>>> >>>> Injuries/status - we don't just want fights to be wars of attrition >>>> where you attack attack attack and try to slowly drain your foes life (and >>>> vice versa) - in real life, this would be the equivelent of standing in >>>> front of someone and punching them back and forth until someone died. >>>> Silly! i think most (if not all) of us are experienced martial artists and >>>> we know fights don't work like that, there are holds, throws, etc that can >>>> put your opponent in compromising situations that give you the advantage. >>>> Add weapons to this and we have a fun system that is more dynamic than the >>>> typical rpg combat system. Examples of this would be sweeps/tackles/throws >>>> that leave the enemy prone and thus unable to defend themselves as well, or >>>> entangled via nets, maybe even HELD by one character while the others beat >>>> it up (could we do this)? or maybe getting maimed or hamstrung knocks you >>>> over, getting stunned (like street fighter when you do a certain >>>> combination >>>> the enemy can't move and has birds flying above their head) is another >>>> example. >>>> >>>> This style of combat would add a lot of depth and strategy and make >>>> combat feel more "alive" and dangerous and fun. Also it adds a lot of >>>> potential skills and techniques to our future list >>>> >>>> Injuries - with our injury and death system, swapping to keep your team >>>> healthy is important. This is kind of a big thing but I am sort of leaning >>>> towards thinking maybe MAYBE the hero can't die. everyone else can, but if >>>> the hero is "knocked out" in battle, he's back after the fight. he can then >>>> go forward to try to find the next respawn node or maybe theres a "Recall" >>>> option where you can revert to the start of the dungeon with all your party >>>> members intact. i think this will eliminate a lot of frustration as well >>>> as >>>> prevent people from keeping the hero on the sidelines worried he will die. >>>> >>>> just as a quick guess... i am thinking you get 7 active party members (3 >>>> active, 4 tagteamable) and then an additional 7 back at your "home base" >>>> that you can swap out ff style whenever you're there for a total of 14 in >>>> your party. We will (ideally) have 40-50 recruitable characters so this >>>> forces you to make some decisions on who you want to pick but also gives >>>> you >>>> a large stable of characters so you don't feel like "shit, i have to give >>>> up >>>> one of my favs". >>>> >>>> >>>> Just some thoughts... let me know what you think! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >