[project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party list, matchups and tagteaming

  • From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:48:37 -0400

ok, im cool with the spirit nodes thing, sounds good.  hey question though -
and this is a bit off from what i was thinking initially (you brought up
good points and changed my mind re: this) -- i think if you die, you go back
to the node but w/ the experience but i dont think you should keep items you
found, etc. like if you went into a cave to retrieve some crazy weapon, you
shouldnt be able to grab it and die and start back at the beginning...
should definitely survive a round trip.  Maybe the hero gets one "knock out"
before dying and going back to the spirit node, if that makes sense.  that
way they get a second chance but they can still die.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I dont think that would be enough to balance it just because for instance
> you know how you wanted to make a labyrinth?
> you could just grind your way to the bottom level losing every fight.
> but, i guess a way to stop that would be to have periodic enemies which
> blocked your path, or like the ones that ambush you, so you could never get
> passed them until you beat them.
> Also does not being able to die kind of lose the sense of danger in the
> game?  Cause basically you  know you can go anywhere and do anything and at
> worst you'll just have to walk back.
> Hey eric... what about this...
> What if we use the spirit nodes like checkpoints  where when you die you
> get teleported back there just like your buddies would (basically it'll
> teleport you back to the last one you were at).
> You keep your gold, exp and loot you've found, but you get sent back to the
> last spirit node you visited, and maybe only the hero is left alive (and
> maybe not full health)?
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:40 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> switching out would be someones option when it was their turn, theres no
>> penalty except the loss of a turn, and it's definitely smart and part of the
>> strategy to swap out a dying dude (maybe being stunned, etc would prevent a
>> swap out though) for a fresh guy.
>> i like the idea of using marvel vs capcom as a reference, there will
>> probably be two health parts like in that game, where you can heal to a
>> certain extent (both in battle and out).  actually, marvel vs capcom is
>> basically exactly how i envisioned it and is perfect to express it.  this
>> way people can "heal" if they are hurt but can only heal so far due to
>> permanent injuries (which can only be fixed in town or at a node).  this is
>> a great way to balance combat where people can sustain injuries and have
>> those injuries mean something, but also people can heal and not be totally
>> just drained whenever they get hit... wow i really really like this, great
>> thought alan :)
>> we're definitely on the same page as far as holding/grabbing/net stuff
>> goes, i think that will be way awesome and add depth/balance.  the more cool
>> skills we can have for different types, the easier it'll be to balance so
>> everyone has awesome skills that makes them appealing to the player.
>> as far as the hero never dying... if they came up against a boss they
>> couldnt beat, and their party was dead, they wouldnt be able to go on,
>> they'd be forced to recall because they wouldnt have enough juice to get
>> past certain enemies.  would that be enough to balance that?
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>> I think switching out your characters could work, that kinda sounds cool
>>> and i can picture it in my head.
>>> When you would switch, would you be able to switch any turn of combat,
>>> only the first, or what?  Also is there a penalty to switching or is it for
>>> free?  I'm just curious cause if one guy was dying you could swap him out
>>> with another and have a fresh guy, is that ok?
>>> If so we could do soemthing like marvel vs capcom i think it was, where
>>> the team mates that are in the back row and not fighting slowly heal their
>>> wounds (in this case they heal a small amount as round time progresses) what
>>> you think?  If that is too overpowered, it could be something like they can
>>> only heal maximum up to the life they had before they got struck in the
>>> current battle.
>>> Being held by one character and attacked by another makes sense.  Maybe
>>> its a skill, and what happens is when you use that skill, the character that
>>> used it has to keep using it each turn to hold onto the monster and that
>>> monster basically struggles each turn where it has some chance to escape but
>>> that uses up it's turn.  Just like real life if you oare outnumbered,
>>> grabbing hold of someone or wrestling around with them wouldnt be a good
>>> idea cause his buddies would kick your butt, but if there is like 1 monster
>>> left it could be a cool skill.  Like havin a guy like sabin be able to grab
>>> the last enemy and hold him while your other guys hit him would be a pretty
>>> useful skill (:
>>> About the player never dying, on one hand i could see that working but on
>>> the other, couldnt you just scrape through anyhwere by walking through a
>>> dungeon and getting knocked out at each fight?  How do you balance that out?
>>> Some cool ideas!
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:36 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> ok here is how i am thinking parties will work in combat...
>>>> there will be 3 active party members in any fight and 4 on the sidelines
>>>> that can be "tagged in" (swapped) as a combat option for any of the active
>>>> players INCLUDING the hero. this will allow you to sub out injured
>>>> characters for fresh healthy ones, or if you want two people that can do a
>>>> special attack, you can have them sub in to pull of a coup de grace, or
>>>> maybe there is a MATCHUP you want to exploit.
>>>> Matchups? Huh?
>>>> Matchups are basically already existing in games but without anything to
>>>> quantify them.  basically, if you're in battle against a big slow ogre or
>>>> something, you can adjust your party to better match up w/ the enemy
>>>> (enemies) you're fighting.  Maybe you want a big dude that can go
>>>> mano-y-mano with the ogre, or a small quick dude who can exploit the ogre's
>>>> plodding attack and slow defense.  Maybe you're up against a flying 
>>>> creature
>>>> and arrows will be the best way to bring them down when standard attacks
>>>> seem ineffectual.   Picking the best match up for what you're going against
>>>> can mean the difference of life and death.
>>>> Injuries/status - we don't just want fights to be wars of attrition
>>>> where you attack attack attack and try to slowly drain your foes life (and
>>>> vice versa) - in real life, this would be the equivelent of standing in
>>>> front of someone and punching them back and forth until someone died.
>>>> Silly!  i think most (if not all) of us are experienced martial artists and
>>>> we know fights don't work like that, there are holds, throws, etc that can
>>>> put your opponent in compromising situations that give you the advantage.
>>>> Add weapons to this and we have a fun system that is more dynamic than the
>>>> typical rpg combat system.  Examples of this would be sweeps/tackles/throws
>>>> that leave the enemy prone and thus unable to defend themselves as well, or
>>>> entangled via nets, maybe even HELD by one character while the others beat
>>>> it up (could we do this)?  or maybe getting maimed or hamstrung knocks you
>>>> over, getting stunned (like street fighter when you do a certain 
>>>> combination
>>>> the enemy can't move and has birds flying above their head) is another
>>>> example.
>>>> This style of combat would add a lot of depth and strategy and make
>>>> combat feel more "alive" and dangerous and fun.  Also it adds a lot of
>>>> potential skills and techniques to our future list
>>>> Injuries - with our injury and death system, swapping to keep your team
>>>> healthy is important.  This is kind of a big thing but I am sort of leaning
>>>> towards thinking maybe MAYBE the hero can't die.  everyone else can, but if
>>>> the hero is "knocked out" in battle, he's back after the fight. he can then
>>>> go forward to try to find the next respawn node or maybe theres a "Recall"
>>>> option where you can revert to the start of the dungeon with all your party
>>>> members intact.  i think this will eliminate a lot of frustration as well 
>>>> as
>>>> prevent people from keeping the hero on the sidelines worried he will die.
>>>> just as a quick guess... i am thinking you get 7 active party members (3
>>>> active, 4 tagteamable) and then an additional 7 back at your "home base"
>>>> that you can swap out ff style whenever you're there for a total of 14 in
>>>> your party.  We will (ideally) have 40-50 recruitable characters so this
>>>> forces you to make some decisions on who you want to pick but also gives 
>>>> you
>>>> a large stable of characters so you don't feel like "shit, i have to give 
>>>> up
>>>> one of my favs".
>>>> Just some thoughts... let me know what you think!

Other related posts: