[project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party list, matchups and tagteaming

  • From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:09:41 -0700

I like the idea of losing in battle does not make you lose the game but
instead creates a new path. Such as characters getting captured, getting an
item from helpful town folk, etc.

I think it would be cool if your main player character could/would get
captured when you lost. Maybe it depends on the area you are in or the
enemies you are fighting. For example, if you are defeated by cannibals they
will take you back to their camp and try to eat you. Then one of 2 scenarios
can unfold. If you have living team mates you can select them to go and
break your hero out of the situation. If you don't your hero could wake up
in the pot cooking and you could solve a puzzle or button mash or something
to break free. Maybe if your stealthy you can sneak away at night or if your
are more charismatic you can talk them out of eating you.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:01 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Thinking this through, maybe getting a knockout before you die could be a
> perk like (tough guy perk). I could see indiana jones or bruce willis in
> diehard having this perk
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> ------------------------------
> *From*: Alan Wolfe
> *Date*: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:54:02 -0700
> *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
> list, matchups and tagteaming
> that makes sense about the knockout before dying.
>
> About not keeping items that makes sense.
>
> Should they keep exp even then?
>
> If not, we could just do an automatic game save at the spirit node and then
> load that when they died.
>
> Can you think of a situation you'll ever want to do that is an exception to
> the rule?
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:49 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> turnbased fantasy rpg version of americas army style gameplay  :-P
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> That sounds decent (:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:45 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> well i think health would probably work like a hybrid of halo and marvel
>>>> vs capcom where you have two health bars, current life and max life, your
>>>> current life can go up via auto healing or first aid, but your max life
>>>> cannot be restored unless you're in a town.
>>>>
>>>> example:
>>>>
>>>> main character has:
>>>> max hp 100
>>>> current hp 100
>>>>
>>>> he gets punched, losing life
>>>> max hp 90
>>>> current hp 70
>>>>
>>>> now he uses first aid, bringing him back up to 90 (100 is truemax, but
>>>> he cannot attain that)
>>>> max hp 90
>>>> current hp 90
>>>>
>>>> this will also influence the strategy of party set up, tagteaming, etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey just thought of something else too...
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric if you hate the war of attrition we could go the route of the
>>>>> modern games (or at least try it) like halo where you have hp but it
>>>>> recovers over time (like when you are in back row or maybe not in 
>>>>> combat...
>>>>> or potentially all the time?)
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure if its a good idea, but its an idea :P
>>>>>
>>>>> lol
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I like the FF view better myself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm am curious for the answer to Alan's questions as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:32 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 100% definitely.  either ff style or maybe where its 3rd person over
>>>>>>> teh shoulder style.  i think you should be able to see them and with our
>>>>>>> gameplay style i think it'll be needed to show whats going on - 
>>>>>>> visually and
>>>>>>> mechanically it'll be better.  i was actually gonna bring this up when 
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> got into more detailed combat stuff :) glad we're on the same page there
>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW what do you think about us changing our battle view from the
>>>>>>>> dragon quest 5 view to the final fantasy view?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I kinda miss being able to see the characters, and see the weapons /
>>>>>>>> attacks and skills the players use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think it makes the combat more epic and fun. Like think of
>>>>>>>> fighting vargas or ultros where you see his tentacles slap your 
>>>>>>>> players, can
>>>>>>>> you remember a fight like that at all in DQ5? i cant...most of the 
>>>>>>>> fights
>>>>>>>> are unmemoriable, except for the ones where like 10 slimes form into 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> slime king hehe
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think switching out your characters could work, that kinda sounds
>>>>>>>>> cool and i can picture it in my head.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When you would switch, would you be able to switch any turn of
>>>>>>>>> combat, only the first, or what?  Also is there a penalty to 
>>>>>>>>> switching or is
>>>>>>>>> it for free?  I'm just curious cause if one guy was dying you could 
>>>>>>>>> swap him
>>>>>>>>> out with another and have a fresh guy, is that ok?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If so we could do soemthing like marvel vs capcom i think it was,
>>>>>>>>> where the team mates that are in the back row and not fighting slowly 
>>>>>>>>> heal
>>>>>>>>> their wounds (in this case they heal a small amount as round time
>>>>>>>>> progresses) what you think?  If that is too overpowered, it could be
>>>>>>>>> something like they can only heal maximum up to the life they had 
>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>> they got struck in the current battle.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Being held by one character and attacked by another makes sense.
>>>>>>>>> Maybe its a skill, and what happens is when you use that skill, the
>>>>>>>>> character that used it has to keep using it each turn to hold onto the
>>>>>>>>> monster and that monster basically struggles each turn where it has 
>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>> chance to escape but that uses up it's turn.  Just like real life if 
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> oare outnumbered, grabbing hold of someone or wrestling around with 
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>> wouldnt be a good idea cause his buddies would kick your butt, but if 
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> is like 1 monster left it could be a cool skill.  Like havin a guy 
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> sabin be able to grab the last enemy and hold him while your other 
>>>>>>>>> guys hit
>>>>>>>>> him would be a pretty useful skill (:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> About the player never dying, on one hand i could see that working
>>>>>>>>> but on the other, couldnt you just scrape through anyhwere by walking
>>>>>>>>> through a dungeon and getting knocked out at each fight?  How do you 
>>>>>>>>> balance
>>>>>>>>> that out?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some cool ideas!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:36 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ok here is how i am thinking parties will work in combat...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> there will be 3 active party members in any fight and 4 on the
>>>>>>>>>> sidelines that can be "tagged in" (swapped) as a combat option for 
>>>>>>>>>> any of
>>>>>>>>>> the active players INCLUDING the hero. this will allow you to sub out
>>>>>>>>>> injured characters for fresh healthy ones, or if you want two people 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> can do a special attack, you can have them sub in to pull of a coup 
>>>>>>>>>> de
>>>>>>>>>> grace, or maybe there is a MATCHUP you want to exploit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Matchups? Huh?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Matchups are basically already existing in games but without
>>>>>>>>>> anything to quantify them.  basically, if you're in battle against a 
>>>>>>>>>> big
>>>>>>>>>> slow ogre or something, you can adjust your party to better match up 
>>>>>>>>>> w/ the
>>>>>>>>>> enemy (enemies) you're fighting.  Maybe you want a big dude that can 
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>> mano-y-mano with the ogre, or a small quick dude who can exploit the 
>>>>>>>>>> ogre's
>>>>>>>>>> plodding attack and slow defense.  Maybe you're up against a flying 
>>>>>>>>>> creature
>>>>>>>>>> and arrows will be the best way to bring them down when standard 
>>>>>>>>>> attacks
>>>>>>>>>> seem ineffectual.   Picking the best match up for what you're going 
>>>>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>>>>> can mean the difference of life and death.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Injuries/status - we don't just want fights to be wars of
>>>>>>>>>> attrition where you attack attack attack and try to slowly drain 
>>>>>>>>>> your foes
>>>>>>>>>> life (and vice versa) - in real life, this would be the equivelent of
>>>>>>>>>> standing in front of someone and punching them back and forth until 
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>> died.  Silly!  i think most (if not all) of us are experienced 
>>>>>>>>>> martial
>>>>>>>>>> artists and we know fights don't work like that, there are holds, 
>>>>>>>>>> throws,
>>>>>>>>>> etc that can put your opponent in compromising situations that give 
>>>>>>>>>> you the
>>>>>>>>>> advantage.  Add weapons to this and we have a fun system that is more
>>>>>>>>>> dynamic than the typical rpg combat system.  Examples of this would 
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> sweeps/tackles/throws that leave the enemy prone and thus unable to 
>>>>>>>>>> defend
>>>>>>>>>> themselves as well, or entangled via nets, maybe even HELD by one 
>>>>>>>>>> character
>>>>>>>>>> while the others beat it up (could we do this)?  or maybe getting 
>>>>>>>>>> maimed or
>>>>>>>>>> hamstrung knocks you over, getting stunned (like street fighter when 
>>>>>>>>>> you do
>>>>>>>>>> a certain combination the enemy can't move and has birds flying 
>>>>>>>>>> above their
>>>>>>>>>> head) is another example.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This style of combat would add a lot of depth and strategy and
>>>>>>>>>> make combat feel more "alive" and dangerous and fun.  Also it adds a 
>>>>>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>>>>> potential skills and techniques to our future list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Injuries - with our injury and death system, swapping to keep your
>>>>>>>>>> team healthy is important.  This is kind of a big thing but I am 
>>>>>>>>>> sort of
>>>>>>>>>> leaning towards thinking maybe MAYBE the hero can't die.  everyone 
>>>>>>>>>> else can,
>>>>>>>>>> but if the hero is "knocked out" in battle, he's back after the 
>>>>>>>>>> fight. he
>>>>>>>>>> can then go forward to try to find the next respawn node or maybe 
>>>>>>>>>> theres a
>>>>>>>>>> "Recall" option where you can revert to the start of the dungeon 
>>>>>>>>>> with all
>>>>>>>>>> your party members intact.  i think this will eliminate a lot of 
>>>>>>>>>> frustration
>>>>>>>>>> as well as prevent people from keeping the hero on the sidelines 
>>>>>>>>>> worried he
>>>>>>>>>> will die.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> just as a quick guess... i am thinking you get 7 active party
>>>>>>>>>> members (3 active, 4 tagteamable) and then an additional 7 back at 
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> "home base" that you can swap out ff style whenever you're there for 
>>>>>>>>>> a total
>>>>>>>>>> of 14 in your party.  We will (ideally) have 40-50 recruitable 
>>>>>>>>>> characters so
>>>>>>>>>> this forces you to make some decisions on who you want to pick but 
>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>> gives you a large stable of characters so you don't feel like "shit, 
>>>>>>>>>> i have
>>>>>>>>>> to give up one of my favs".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts... let me know what you think!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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