[project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party list, matchups and tagteaming

  • From: figarus@xxxxxxxxx
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:02:16 +0000

Hey chris, we totally have this system in mind for non maincharacter characters 
:) awesome that you had the same thoglught
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-----Original Message-----
From: "Chris Sherman" <cshermandesign@xxxxxxxxx>

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:59:20 
To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party list, 
matchups and tagteaming

What if instead of death you are knocked unconscious and captured at which 
point if a member of your party is not currently with you they can attempt to 
rescue you from said capturers. If the rescue attempt fails you are executed 
blah blah blah so on and so forth. Just an idea
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-----Original Message-----
From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:48:37 
To: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party list, 
        matchups and tagteaming

ok, im cool with the spirit nodes thing, sounds good.  hey question though -
and this is a bit off from what i was thinking initially (you brought up
good points and changed my mind re: this) -- i think if you die, you go back
to the node but w/ the experience but i dont think you should keep items you
found, etc. like if you went into a cave to retrieve some crazy weapon, you
shouldnt be able to grab it and die and start back at the beginning...
should definitely survive a round trip.  Maybe the hero gets one "knock out"
before dying and going back to the spirit node, if that makes sense.  that
way they get a second chance but they can still die.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I dont think that would be enough to balance it just because for instance
> you know how you wanted to make a labyrinth?
> you could just grind your way to the bottom level losing every fight.
> but, i guess a way to stop that would be to have periodic enemies which
> blocked your path, or like the ones that ambush you, so you could never get
> passed them until you beat them.
> Also does not being able to die kind of lose the sense of danger in the
> game?  Cause basically you  know you can go anywhere and do anything and at
> worst you'll just have to walk back.
> Hey eric... what about this...
> What if we use the spirit nodes like checkpoints  where when you die you
> get teleported back there just like your buddies would (basically it'll
> teleport you back to the last one you were at).
> You keep your gold, exp and loot you've found, but you get sent back to the
> last spirit node you visited, and maybe only the hero is left alive (and
> maybe not full health)?
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:40 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> switching out would be someones option when it was their turn, theres no
>> penalty except the loss of a turn, and it's definitely smart and part of the
>> strategy to swap out a dying dude (maybe being stunned, etc would prevent a
>> swap out though) for a fresh guy.
>> i like the idea of using marvel vs capcom as a reference, there will
>> probably be two health parts like in that game, where you can heal to a
>> certain extent (both in battle and out).  actually, marvel vs capcom is
>> basically exactly how i envisioned it and is perfect to express it.  this
>> way people can "heal" if they are hurt but can only heal so far due to
>> permanent injuries (which can only be fixed in town or at a node).  this is
>> a great way to balance combat where people can sustain injuries and have
>> those injuries mean something, but also people can heal and not be totally
>> just drained whenever they get hit... wow i really really like this, great
>> thought alan :)
>> we're definitely on the same page as far as holding/grabbing/net stuff
>> goes, i think that will be way awesome and add depth/balance.  the more cool
>> skills we can have for different types, the easier it'll be to balance so
>> everyone has awesome skills that makes them appealing to the player.
>> as far as the hero never dying... if they came up against a boss they
>> couldnt beat, and their party was dead, they wouldnt be able to go on,
>> they'd be forced to recall because they wouldnt have enough juice to get
>> past certain enemies.  would that be enough to balance that?
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>> I think switching out your characters could work, that kinda sounds cool
>>> and i can picture it in my head.
>>> When you would switch, would you be able to switch any turn of combat,
>>> only the first, or what?  Also is there a penalty to switching or is it for
>>> free?  I'm just curious cause if one guy was dying you could swap him out
>>> with another and have a fresh guy, is that ok?
>>> If so we could do soemthing like marvel vs capcom i think it was, where
>>> the team mates that are in the back row and not fighting slowly heal their
>>> wounds (in this case they heal a small amount as round time progresses) what
>>> you think?  If that is too overpowered, it could be something like they can
>>> only heal maximum up to the life they had before they got struck in the
>>> current battle.
>>> Being held by one character and attacked by another makes sense.  Maybe
>>> its a skill, and what happens is when you use that skill, the character that
>>> used it has to keep using it each turn to hold onto the monster and that
>>> monster basically struggles each turn where it has some chance to escape but
>>> that uses up it's turn.  Just like real life if you oare outnumbered,
>>> grabbing hold of someone or wrestling around with them wouldnt be a good
>>> idea cause his buddies would kick your butt, but if there is like 1 monster
>>> left it could be a cool skill.  Like havin a guy like sabin be able to grab
>>> the last enemy and hold him while your other guys hit him would be a pretty
>>> useful skill (:
>>> About the player never dying, on one hand i could see that working but on
>>> the other, couldnt you just scrape through anyhwere by walking through a
>>> dungeon and getting knocked out at each fight?  How do you balance that out?
>>> Some cool ideas!
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:36 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> ok here is how i am thinking parties will work in combat...
>>>> there will be 3 active party members in any fight and 4 on the sidelines
>>>> that can be "tagged in" (swapped) as a combat option for any of the active
>>>> players INCLUDING the hero. this will allow you to sub out injured
>>>> characters for fresh healthy ones, or if you want two people that can do a
>>>> special attack, you can have them sub in to pull of a coup de grace, or
>>>> maybe there is a MATCHUP you want to exploit.
>>>> Matchups? Huh?
>>>> Matchups are basically already existing in games but without anything to
>>>> quantify them.  basically, if you're in battle against a big slow ogre or
>>>> something, you can adjust your party to better match up w/ the enemy
>>>> (enemies) you're fighting.  Maybe you want a big dude that can go
>>>> mano-y-mano with the ogre, or a small quick dude who can exploit the ogre's
>>>> plodding attack and slow defense.  Maybe you're up against a flying 
>>>> creature
>>>> and arrows will be the best way to bring them down when standard attacks
>>>> seem ineffectual.   Picking the best match up for what you're going against
>>>> can mean the difference of life and death.
>>>> Injuries/status - we don't just want fights to be wars of attrition
>>>> where you attack attack attack and try to slowly drain your foes life (and
>>>> vice versa) - in real life, this would be the equivelent of standing in
>>>> front of someone and punching them back and forth until someone died.
>>>> Silly!  i think most (if not all) of us are experienced martial artists and
>>>> we know fights don't work like that, there are holds, throws, etc that can
>>>> put your opponent in compromising situations that give you the advantage.
>>>> Add weapons to this and we have a fun system that is more dynamic than the
>>>> typical rpg combat system.  Examples of this would be sweeps/tackles/throws
>>>> that leave the enemy prone and thus unable to defend themselves as well, or
>>>> entangled via nets, maybe even HELD by one character while the others beat
>>>> it up (could we do this)?  or maybe getting maimed or hamstrung knocks you
>>>> over, getting stunned (like street fighter when you do a certain 
>>>> combination
>>>> the enemy can't move and has birds flying above their head) is another
>>>> example.
>>>> This style of combat would add a lot of depth and strategy and make
>>>> combat feel more "alive" and dangerous and fun.  Also it adds a lot of
>>>> potential skills and techniques to our future list
>>>> Injuries - with our injury and death system, swapping to keep your team
>>>> healthy is important.  This is kind of a big thing but I am sort of leaning
>>>> towards thinking maybe MAYBE the hero can't die.  everyone else can, but if
>>>> the hero is "knocked out" in battle, he's back after the fight. he can then
>>>> go forward to try to find the next respawn node or maybe theres a "Recall"
>>>> option where you can revert to the start of the dungeon with all your party
>>>> members intact.  i think this will eliminate a lot of frustration as well 
>>>> as
>>>> prevent people from keeping the hero on the sidelines worried he will die.
>>>> just as a quick guess... i am thinking you get 7 active party members (3
>>>> active, 4 tagteamable) and then an additional 7 back at your "home base"
>>>> that you can swap out ff style whenever you're there for a total of 14 in
>>>> your party.  We will (ideally) have 40-50 recruitable characters so this
>>>> forces you to make some decisions on who you want to pick but also gives 
>>>> you
>>>> a large stable of characters so you don't feel like "shit, i have to give 
>>>> up
>>>> one of my favs".
>>>> Just some thoughts... let me know what you think!

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