[project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party list, matchups and tagteaming

  • From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:00:43 -0700

I'm with Eric, you don't want to let them keep items when they die. I think
keeping experience is good. If we design our dungeons properly there should
be no reason for a boring walk back to town anyway. All levels should be
engaging at all times, especially when they are almost finished. That's when
you should pull out the big surprises.

I was thinking you could do it DnD style where your not really dead untill
you achieve negative 10 life. So when you hit 0 your player or party member
is knocked out and unusable. If you don't swap them out of combat they can
still be targeted. If a knocked out player (a player with 0 life) is damaged
further they can die, perhaps if your maxlife (as eric described above)
drops below 0. A complete loss will only occur when everyone is dead and the
player should not be able to be killed but only knocked out to 0 life. If
there are no surviving party members to first aid him then the team loses
and returns to a node.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> that makes sense about the knockout before dying.
> About not keeping items that makes sense.
> Should they keep exp even then?
> If not, we could just do an automatic game save at the spirit node and then
> load that when they died.
> Can you think of a situation you'll ever want to do that is an exception to
> the rule?
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:49 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> turnbased fantasy rpg version of americas army style gameplay  :-P
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>> That sounds decent (:
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:45 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> well i think health would probably work like a hybrid of halo and marvel
>>>> vs capcom where you have two health bars, current life and max life, your
>>>> current life can go up via auto healing or first aid, but your max life
>>>> cannot be restored unless you're in a town.
>>>> example:
>>>> main character has:
>>>> max hp 100
>>>> current hp 100
>>>> he gets punched, losing life
>>>> max hp 90
>>>> current hp 70
>>>> now he uses first aid, bringing him back up to 90 (100 is truemax, but
>>>> he cannot attain that)
>>>> max hp 90
>>>> current hp 90
>>>> this will also influence the strategy of party set up, tagteaming, etc.
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>> Hey just thought of something else too...
>>>>> Eric if you hate the war of attrition we could go the route of the
>>>>> modern games (or at least try it) like halo where you have hp but it
>>>>> recovers over time (like when you are in back row or maybe not in 
>>>>> combat...
>>>>> or potentially all the time?)
>>>>> Not sure if its a good idea, but its an idea :P
>>>>> lol
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>> I like the FF view better myself.
>>>>>> I'm am curious for the answer to Alan's questions as well.
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:32 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>> 100% definitely.  either ff style or maybe where its 3rd person over
>>>>>>> teh shoulder style.  i think you should be able to see them and with our
>>>>>>> gameplay style i think it'll be needed to show whats going on - 
>>>>>>> visually and
>>>>>>> mechanically it'll be better.  i was actually gonna bring this up when 
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> got into more detailed combat stuff :) glad we're on the same page there
>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>> BTW what do you think about us changing our battle view from the
>>>>>>>> dragon quest 5 view to the final fantasy view?
>>>>>>>> I kinda miss being able to see the characters, and see the weapons /
>>>>>>>> attacks and skills the players use.
>>>>>>>> I think it makes the combat more epic and fun. Like think of
>>>>>>>> fighting vargas or ultros where you see his tentacles slap your 
>>>>>>>> players, can
>>>>>>>> you remember a fight like that at all in DQ5? i cant...most of the 
>>>>>>>> fights
>>>>>>>> are unmemoriable, except for the ones where like 10 slimes form into 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> slime king hehe
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I think switching out your characters could work, that kinda sounds
>>>>>>>>> cool and i can picture it in my head.
>>>>>>>>> When you would switch, would you be able to switch any turn of
>>>>>>>>> combat, only the first, or what?  Also is there a penalty to 
>>>>>>>>> switching or is
>>>>>>>>> it for free?  I'm just curious cause if one guy was dying you could 
>>>>>>>>> swap him
>>>>>>>>> out with another and have a fresh guy, is that ok?
>>>>>>>>> If so we could do soemthing like marvel vs capcom i think it was,
>>>>>>>>> where the team mates that are in the back row and not fighting slowly 
>>>>>>>>> heal
>>>>>>>>> their wounds (in this case they heal a small amount as round time
>>>>>>>>> progresses) what you think?  If that is too overpowered, it could be
>>>>>>>>> something like they can only heal maximum up to the life they had 
>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>> they got struck in the current battle.
>>>>>>>>> Being held by one character and attacked by another makes sense.
>>>>>>>>> Maybe its a skill, and what happens is when you use that skill, the
>>>>>>>>> character that used it has to keep using it each turn to hold onto the
>>>>>>>>> monster and that monster basically struggles each turn where it has 
>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>> chance to escape but that uses up it's turn.  Just like real life if 
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> oare outnumbered, grabbing hold of someone or wrestling around with 
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>> wouldnt be a good idea cause his buddies would kick your butt, but if 
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> is like 1 monster left it could be a cool skill.  Like havin a guy 
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> sabin be able to grab the last enemy and hold him while your other 
>>>>>>>>> guys hit
>>>>>>>>> him would be a pretty useful skill (:
>>>>>>>>> About the player never dying, on one hand i could see that working
>>>>>>>>> but on the other, couldnt you just scrape through anyhwere by walking
>>>>>>>>> through a dungeon and getting knocked out at each fight?  How do you 
>>>>>>>>> balance
>>>>>>>>> that out?
>>>>>>>>> Some cool ideas!
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:36 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ok here is how i am thinking parties will work in combat...
>>>>>>>>>> there will be 3 active party members in any fight and 4 on the
>>>>>>>>>> sidelines that can be "tagged in" (swapped) as a combat option for 
>>>>>>>>>> any of
>>>>>>>>>> the active players INCLUDING the hero. this will allow you to sub out
>>>>>>>>>> injured characters for fresh healthy ones, or if you want two people 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> can do a special attack, you can have them sub in to pull of a coup 
>>>>>>>>>> de
>>>>>>>>>> grace, or maybe there is a MATCHUP you want to exploit.
>>>>>>>>>> Matchups? Huh?
>>>>>>>>>> Matchups are basically already existing in games but without
>>>>>>>>>> anything to quantify them.  basically, if you're in battle against a 
>>>>>>>>>> big
>>>>>>>>>> slow ogre or something, you can adjust your party to better match up 
>>>>>>>>>> w/ the
>>>>>>>>>> enemy (enemies) you're fighting.  Maybe you want a big dude that can 
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>> mano-y-mano with the ogre, or a small quick dude who can exploit the 
>>>>>>>>>> ogre's
>>>>>>>>>> plodding attack and slow defense.  Maybe you're up against a flying 
>>>>>>>>>> creature
>>>>>>>>>> and arrows will be the best way to bring them down when standard 
>>>>>>>>>> attacks
>>>>>>>>>> seem ineffectual.   Picking the best match up for what you're going 
>>>>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>>>>> can mean the difference of life and death.
>>>>>>>>>> Injuries/status - we don't just want fights to be wars of
>>>>>>>>>> attrition where you attack attack attack and try to slowly drain 
>>>>>>>>>> your foes
>>>>>>>>>> life (and vice versa) - in real life, this would be the equivelent of
>>>>>>>>>> standing in front of someone and punching them back and forth until 
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>> died.  Silly!  i think most (if not all) of us are experienced 
>>>>>>>>>> martial
>>>>>>>>>> artists and we know fights don't work like that, there are holds, 
>>>>>>>>>> throws,
>>>>>>>>>> etc that can put your opponent in compromising situations that give 
>>>>>>>>>> you the
>>>>>>>>>> advantage.  Add weapons to this and we have a fun system that is more
>>>>>>>>>> dynamic than the typical rpg combat system.  Examples of this would 
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> sweeps/tackles/throws that leave the enemy prone and thus unable to 
>>>>>>>>>> defend
>>>>>>>>>> themselves as well, or entangled via nets, maybe even HELD by one 
>>>>>>>>>> character
>>>>>>>>>> while the others beat it up (could we do this)?  or maybe getting 
>>>>>>>>>> maimed or
>>>>>>>>>> hamstrung knocks you over, getting stunned (like street fighter when 
>>>>>>>>>> you do
>>>>>>>>>> a certain combination the enemy can't move and has birds flying 
>>>>>>>>>> above their
>>>>>>>>>> head) is another example.
>>>>>>>>>> This style of combat would add a lot of depth and strategy and
>>>>>>>>>> make combat feel more "alive" and dangerous and fun.  Also it adds a 
>>>>>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>>>>> potential skills and techniques to our future list
>>>>>>>>>> Injuries - with our injury and death system, swapping to keep your
>>>>>>>>>> team healthy is important.  This is kind of a big thing but I am 
>>>>>>>>>> sort of
>>>>>>>>>> leaning towards thinking maybe MAYBE the hero can't die.  everyone 
>>>>>>>>>> else can,
>>>>>>>>>> but if the hero is "knocked out" in battle, he's back after the 
>>>>>>>>>> fight. he
>>>>>>>>>> can then go forward to try to find the next respawn node or maybe 
>>>>>>>>>> theres a
>>>>>>>>>> "Recall" option where you can revert to the start of the dungeon 
>>>>>>>>>> with all
>>>>>>>>>> your party members intact.  i think this will eliminate a lot of 
>>>>>>>>>> frustration
>>>>>>>>>> as well as prevent people from keeping the hero on the sidelines 
>>>>>>>>>> worried he
>>>>>>>>>> will die.
>>>>>>>>>> just as a quick guess... i am thinking you get 7 active party
>>>>>>>>>> members (3 active, 4 tagteamable) and then an additional 7 back at 
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> "home base" that you can swap out ff style whenever you're there for 
>>>>>>>>>> a total
>>>>>>>>>> of 14 in your party.  We will (ideally) have 40-50 recruitable 
>>>>>>>>>> characters so
>>>>>>>>>> this forces you to make some decisions on who you want to pick but 
>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>> gives you a large stable of characters so you don't feel like "shit, 
>>>>>>>>>> i have
>>>>>>>>>> to give up one of my favs".
>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts... let me know what you think!

Other related posts: