[project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party list, matchups and tagteaming

  • From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:00:34 -0700

ok so when you die it does a load of the save it made when you were at the
last node (or your last save game if you havent hit a node yet?) and resets
everything to that point, but keeps any experience you've gained.

sound right?

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:08 AM, <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I dunno about gold
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> ------------------------------
> *From*: Alan Wolfe
> *Date*: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:06:50 -0700
> *To*: <project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Subject*: [project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party
> list, matchups and tagteaming
>  Ok so lose all items but keep exp and gold?
> i think thats doable.
> I think i'll just have it do the game save / load idea, but make it
> over-write the exp and gold after load with your at death exp and gold.
> any other values we want to persist past death we can do in a similar
> manner too (:
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> I'm with Eric, you don't want to let them keep items when they die. I
>> think keeping experience is good. If we design our dungeons properly there
>> should be no reason for a boring walk back to town anyway. All levels should
>> be engaging at all times, especially when they are almost finished. That's
>> when you should pull out the big surprises.
>> I was thinking you could do it DnD style where your not really dead untill
>> you achieve negative 10 life. So when you hit 0 your player or party member
>> is knocked out and unusable. If you don't swap them out of combat they can
>> still be targeted. If a knocked out player (a player with 0 life) is damaged
>> further they can die, perhaps if your maxlife (as eric described above)
>> drops below 0. A complete loss will only occur when everyone is dead and the
>> player should not be able to be killed but only knocked out to 0 life. If
>> there are no surviving party members to first aid him then the team loses
>> and returns to a node.
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> that makes sense about the knockout before dying.
>>> About not keeping items that makes sense.
>>> Should they keep exp even then?
>>> If not, we could just do an automatic game save at the spirit node and
>>> then load that when they died.
>>> Can you think of a situation you'll ever want to do that is an exception
>>> to the rule?
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:49 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> turnbased fantasy rpg version of americas army style gameplay  :-P
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>> That sounds decent (:
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:45 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>> well i think health would probably work like a hybrid of halo and
>>>>>> marvel vs capcom where you have two health bars, current life and max 
>>>>>> life,
>>>>>> your current life can go up via auto healing or first aid, but your max 
>>>>>> life
>>>>>> cannot be restored unless you're in a town.
>>>>>> example:
>>>>>> main character has:
>>>>>> max hp 100
>>>>>> current hp 100
>>>>>> he gets punched, losing life
>>>>>> max hp 90
>>>>>> current hp 70
>>>>>> now he uses first aid, bringing him back up to 90 (100 is truemax, but
>>>>>> he cannot attain that)
>>>>>> max hp 90
>>>>>> current hp 90
>>>>>> this will also influence the strategy of party set up, tagteaming,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>> Hey just thought of something else too...
>>>>>>> Eric if you hate the war of attrition we could go the route of the
>>>>>>> modern games (or at least try it) like halo where you have hp but it
>>>>>>> recovers over time (like when you are in back row or maybe not in 
>>>>>>> combat...
>>>>>>> or potentially all the time?)
>>>>>>> Not sure if its a good idea, but its an idea :P
>>>>>>> lol
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>> I like the FF view better myself.
>>>>>>>> I'm am curious for the answer to Alan's questions as well.
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:32 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 100% definitely.  either ff style or maybe where its 3rd person
>>>>>>>>> over teh shoulder style.  i think you should be able to see them and 
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> our gameplay style i think it'll be needed to show whats going on - 
>>>>>>>>> visually
>>>>>>>>> and mechanically it'll be better.  i was actually gonna bring this up 
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> we got into more detailed combat stuff :) glad we're on the same page 
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> BTW what do you think about us changing our battle view from the
>>>>>>>>>> dragon quest 5 view to the final fantasy view?
>>>>>>>>>> I kinda miss being able to see the characters, and see the weapons
>>>>>>>>>> / attacks and skills the players use.
>>>>>>>>>> I think it makes the combat more epic and fun. Like think of
>>>>>>>>>> fighting vargas or ultros where you see his tentacles slap your 
>>>>>>>>>> players, can
>>>>>>>>>> you remember a fight like that at all in DQ5? i cant...most of the 
>>>>>>>>>> fights
>>>>>>>>>> are unmemoriable, except for the ones where like 10 slimes form into 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> slime king hehe
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I think switching out your characters could work, that kinda
>>>>>>>>>>> sounds cool and i can picture it in my head.
>>>>>>>>>>> When you would switch, would you be able to switch any turn of
>>>>>>>>>>> combat, only the first, or what?  Also is there a penalty to 
>>>>>>>>>>> switching or is
>>>>>>>>>>> it for free?  I'm just curious cause if one guy was dying you could 
>>>>>>>>>>> swap him
>>>>>>>>>>> out with another and have a fresh guy, is that ok?
>>>>>>>>>>> If so we could do soemthing like marvel vs capcom i think it was,
>>>>>>>>>>> where the team mates that are in the back row and not fighting 
>>>>>>>>>>> slowly heal
>>>>>>>>>>> their wounds (in this case they heal a small amount as round time
>>>>>>>>>>> progresses) what you think?  If that is too overpowered, it could be
>>>>>>>>>>> something like they can only heal maximum up to the life they had 
>>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>>> they got struck in the current battle.
>>>>>>>>>>> Being held by one character and attacked by another makes sense.
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe its a skill, and what happens is when you use that skill, the
>>>>>>>>>>> character that used it has to keep using it each turn to hold onto 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> monster and that monster basically struggles each turn where it has 
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> chance to escape but that uses up it's turn.  Just like real life 
>>>>>>>>>>> if you
>>>>>>>>>>> oare outnumbered, grabbing hold of someone or wrestling around with 
>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>> wouldnt be a good idea cause his buddies would kick your butt, but 
>>>>>>>>>>> if there
>>>>>>>>>>> is like 1 monster left it could be a cool skill.  Like havin a guy 
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> sabin be able to grab the last enemy and hold him while your other 
>>>>>>>>>>> guys hit
>>>>>>>>>>> him would be a pretty useful skill (:
>>>>>>>>>>> About the player never dying, on one hand i could see that
>>>>>>>>>>> working but on the other, couldnt you just scrape through anyhwere 
>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> walking through a dungeon and getting knocked out at each fight?  
>>>>>>>>>>> How do you
>>>>>>>>>>> balance that out?
>>>>>>>>>>> Some cool ideas!
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:36 AM, eric drewes 
>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> ok here is how i am thinking parties will work in combat...
>>>>>>>>>>>> there will be 3 active party members in any fight and 4 on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> sidelines that can be "tagged in" (swapped) as a combat option for 
>>>>>>>>>>>> any of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the active players INCLUDING the hero. this will allow you to sub 
>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>> injured characters for fresh healthy ones, or if you want two 
>>>>>>>>>>>> people that
>>>>>>>>>>>> can do a special attack, you can have them sub in to pull of a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> coup de
>>>>>>>>>>>> grace, or maybe there is a MATCHUP you want to exploit.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Matchups? Huh?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Matchups are basically already existing in games but without
>>>>>>>>>>>> anything to quantify them.  basically, if you're in battle against 
>>>>>>>>>>>> a big
>>>>>>>>>>>> slow ogre or something, you can adjust your party to better match 
>>>>>>>>>>>> up w/ the
>>>>>>>>>>>> enemy (enemies) you're fighting.  Maybe you want a big dude that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> can go
>>>>>>>>>>>> mano-y-mano with the ogre, or a small quick dude who can exploit 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the ogre's
>>>>>>>>>>>> plodding attack and slow defense.  Maybe you're up against a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> flying creature
>>>>>>>>>>>> and arrows will be the best way to bring them down when standard 
>>>>>>>>>>>> attacks
>>>>>>>>>>>> seem ineffectual.   Picking the best match up for what you're 
>>>>>>>>>>>> going against
>>>>>>>>>>>> can mean the difference of life and death.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Injuries/status - we don't just want fights to be wars of
>>>>>>>>>>>> attrition where you attack attack attack and try to slowly drain 
>>>>>>>>>>>> your foes
>>>>>>>>>>>> life (and vice versa) - in real life, this would be the equivelent 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> standing in front of someone and punching them back and forth 
>>>>>>>>>>>> until someone
>>>>>>>>>>>> died.  Silly!  i think most (if not all) of us are experienced 
>>>>>>>>>>>> martial
>>>>>>>>>>>> artists and we know fights don't work like that, there are holds, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> throws,
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc that can put your opponent in compromising situations that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> give you the
>>>>>>>>>>>> advantage.  Add weapons to this and we have a fun system that is 
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic than the typical rpg combat system.  Examples of this 
>>>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>>>> sweeps/tackles/throws that leave the enemy prone and thus unable 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to defend
>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves as well, or entangled via nets, maybe even HELD by one 
>>>>>>>>>>>> character
>>>>>>>>>>>> while the others beat it up (could we do this)?  or maybe getting 
>>>>>>>>>>>> maimed or
>>>>>>>>>>>> hamstrung knocks you over, getting stunned (like street fighter 
>>>>>>>>>>>> when you do
>>>>>>>>>>>> a certain combination the enemy can't move and has birds flying 
>>>>>>>>>>>> above their
>>>>>>>>>>>> head) is another example.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This style of combat would add a lot of depth and strategy and
>>>>>>>>>>>> make combat feel more "alive" and dangerous and fun.  Also it adds 
>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>> potential skills and techniques to our future list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Injuries - with our injury and death system, swapping to keep
>>>>>>>>>>>> your team healthy is important.  This is kind of a big thing but I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> am sort
>>>>>>>>>>>> of leaning towards thinking maybe MAYBE the hero can't die.  
>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else
>>>>>>>>>>>> can, but if the hero is "knocked out" in battle, he's back after 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the fight.
>>>>>>>>>>>> he can then go forward to try to find the next respawn node or 
>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe theres
>>>>>>>>>>>> a "Recall" option where you can revert to the start of the dungeon 
>>>>>>>>>>>> with all
>>>>>>>>>>>> your party members intact.  i think this will eliminate a lot of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> frustration
>>>>>>>>>>>> as well as prevent people from keeping the hero on the sidelines 
>>>>>>>>>>>> worried he
>>>>>>>>>>>> will die.
>>>>>>>>>>>> just as a quick guess... i am thinking you get 7 active party
>>>>>>>>>>>> members (3 active, 4 tagteamable) and then an additional 7 back at 
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> "home base" that you can swap out ff style whenever you're there 
>>>>>>>>>>>> for a total
>>>>>>>>>>>> of 14 in your party.  We will (ideally) have 40-50 recruitable 
>>>>>>>>>>>> characters so
>>>>>>>>>>>> this forces you to make some decisions on who you want to pick but 
>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>> gives you a large stable of characters so you don't feel like 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "shit, i have
>>>>>>>>>>>> to give up one of my favs".
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts... let me know what you think!

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