[project1dev] Re: combat musings - injuries, status, party list, matchups and tagteaming

  • From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:59:10 -0400

even if we dont use this method, i am excited about minigames in general.  i
love golden saucer, i loved the boardgame in dq5 and am excited to dev some
for this game

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:58 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> basically i dont want players to feel like they spent an hour in a dungeon
> gaining experience only to die and lose it all and have it be meaningless...
> maybe theres something else we can do re: this to compensate them for their
> efforts so its not a complete waste.
> just thinking outloud, maybe every 10k of exp the PLAYER (not character)
> gets, he gets a ticket like in DQ5 that lets you play a minigame for prizes
> that you can use in game.  :)
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> that makes sense about the knockout before dying.
>> About not keeping items that makes sense.
>> Should they keep exp even then?
>> If not, we could just do an automatic game save at the spirit node and
>> then load that when they died.
>> Can you think of a situation you'll ever want to do that is an exception
>> to the rule?
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:49 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> turnbased fantasy rpg version of americas army style gameplay  :-P
>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>> That sounds decent (:
>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:45 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> well i think health would probably work like a hybrid of halo and
>>>>> marvel vs capcom where you have two health bars, current life and max 
>>>>> life,
>>>>> your current life can go up via auto healing or first aid, but your max 
>>>>> life
>>>>> cannot be restored unless you're in a town.
>>>>> example:
>>>>> main character has:
>>>>> max hp 100
>>>>> current hp 100
>>>>> he gets punched, losing life
>>>>> max hp 90
>>>>> current hp 70
>>>>> now he uses first aid, bringing him back up to 90 (100 is truemax, but
>>>>> he cannot attain that)
>>>>> max hp 90
>>>>> current hp 90
>>>>> this will also influence the strategy of party set up, tagteaming, etc.
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>> Hey just thought of something else too...
>>>>>> Eric if you hate the war of attrition we could go the route of the
>>>>>> modern games (or at least try it) like halo where you have hp but it
>>>>>> recovers over time (like when you are in back row or maybe not in 
>>>>>> combat...
>>>>>> or potentially all the time?)
>>>>>> Not sure if its a good idea, but its an idea :P
>>>>>> lol
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>> I like the FF view better myself.
>>>>>>> I'm am curious for the answer to Alan's questions as well.
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:32 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>> 100% definitely.  either ff style or maybe where its 3rd person over
>>>>>>>> teh shoulder style.  i think you should be able to see them and with 
>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> gameplay style i think it'll be needed to show whats going on - 
>>>>>>>> visually and
>>>>>>>> mechanically it'll be better.  i was actually gonna bring this up when 
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> got into more detailed combat stuff :) glad we're on the same page 
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> BTW what do you think about us changing our battle view from the
>>>>>>>>> dragon quest 5 view to the final fantasy view?
>>>>>>>>> I kinda miss being able to see the characters, and see the weapons
>>>>>>>>> / attacks and skills the players use.
>>>>>>>>> I think it makes the combat more epic and fun. Like think of
>>>>>>>>> fighting vargas or ultros where you see his tentacles slap your 
>>>>>>>>> players, can
>>>>>>>>> you remember a fight like that at all in DQ5? i cant...most of the 
>>>>>>>>> fights
>>>>>>>>> are unmemoriable, except for the ones where like 10 slimes form into 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> slime king hehe
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I think switching out your characters could work, that kinda
>>>>>>>>>> sounds cool and i can picture it in my head.
>>>>>>>>>> When you would switch, would you be able to switch any turn of
>>>>>>>>>> combat, only the first, or what?  Also is there a penalty to 
>>>>>>>>>> switching or is
>>>>>>>>>> it for free?  I'm just curious cause if one guy was dying you could 
>>>>>>>>>> swap him
>>>>>>>>>> out with another and have a fresh guy, is that ok?
>>>>>>>>>> If so we could do soemthing like marvel vs capcom i think it was,
>>>>>>>>>> where the team mates that are in the back row and not fighting 
>>>>>>>>>> slowly heal
>>>>>>>>>> their wounds (in this case they heal a small amount as round time
>>>>>>>>>> progresses) what you think?  If that is too overpowered, it could be
>>>>>>>>>> something like they can only heal maximum up to the life they had 
>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>> they got struck in the current battle.
>>>>>>>>>> Being held by one character and attacked by another makes sense.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe its a skill, and what happens is when you use that skill, the
>>>>>>>>>> character that used it has to keep using it each turn to hold onto 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> monster and that monster basically struggles each turn where it has 
>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>> chance to escape but that uses up it's turn.  Just like real life if 
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> oare outnumbered, grabbing hold of someone or wrestling around with 
>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>> wouldnt be a good idea cause his buddies would kick your butt, but 
>>>>>>>>>> if there
>>>>>>>>>> is like 1 monster left it could be a cool skill.  Like havin a guy 
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> sabin be able to grab the last enemy and hold him while your other 
>>>>>>>>>> guys hit
>>>>>>>>>> him would be a pretty useful skill (:
>>>>>>>>>> About the player never dying, on one hand i could see that working
>>>>>>>>>> but on the other, couldnt you just scrape through anyhwere by walking
>>>>>>>>>> through a dungeon and getting knocked out at each fight?  How do you 
>>>>>>>>>> balance
>>>>>>>>>> that out?
>>>>>>>>>> Some cool ideas!
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:36 AM, eric drewes 
>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> ok here is how i am thinking parties will work in combat...
>>>>>>>>>>> there will be 3 active party members in any fight and 4 on the
>>>>>>>>>>> sidelines that can be "tagged in" (swapped) as a combat option for 
>>>>>>>>>>> any of
>>>>>>>>>>> the active players INCLUDING the hero. this will allow you to sub 
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>> injured characters for fresh healthy ones, or if you want two 
>>>>>>>>>>> people that
>>>>>>>>>>> can do a special attack, you can have them sub in to pull of a coup 
>>>>>>>>>>> de
>>>>>>>>>>> grace, or maybe there is a MATCHUP you want to exploit.
>>>>>>>>>>> Matchups? Huh?
>>>>>>>>>>> Matchups are basically already existing in games but without
>>>>>>>>>>> anything to quantify them.  basically, if you're in battle against 
>>>>>>>>>>> a big
>>>>>>>>>>> slow ogre or something, you can adjust your party to better match 
>>>>>>>>>>> up w/ the
>>>>>>>>>>> enemy (enemies) you're fighting.  Maybe you want a big dude that 
>>>>>>>>>>> can go
>>>>>>>>>>> mano-y-mano with the ogre, or a small quick dude who can exploit 
>>>>>>>>>>> the ogre's
>>>>>>>>>>> plodding attack and slow defense.  Maybe you're up against a flying 
>>>>>>>>>>> creature
>>>>>>>>>>> and arrows will be the best way to bring them down when standard 
>>>>>>>>>>> attacks
>>>>>>>>>>> seem ineffectual.   Picking the best match up for what you're going 
>>>>>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>>>>>> can mean the difference of life and death.
>>>>>>>>>>> Injuries/status - we don't just want fights to be wars of
>>>>>>>>>>> attrition where you attack attack attack and try to slowly drain 
>>>>>>>>>>> your foes
>>>>>>>>>>> life (and vice versa) - in real life, this would be the equivelent 
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> standing in front of someone and punching them back and forth until 
>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>> died.  Silly!  i think most (if not all) of us are experienced 
>>>>>>>>>>> martial
>>>>>>>>>>> artists and we know fights don't work like that, there are holds, 
>>>>>>>>>>> throws,
>>>>>>>>>>> etc that can put your opponent in compromising situations that give 
>>>>>>>>>>> you the
>>>>>>>>>>> advantage.  Add weapons to this and we have a fun system that is 
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic than the typical rpg combat system.  Examples of this would 
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> sweeps/tackles/throws that leave the enemy prone and thus unable to 
>>>>>>>>>>> defend
>>>>>>>>>>> themselves as well, or entangled via nets, maybe even HELD by one 
>>>>>>>>>>> character
>>>>>>>>>>> while the others beat it up (could we do this)?  or maybe getting 
>>>>>>>>>>> maimed or
>>>>>>>>>>> hamstrung knocks you over, getting stunned (like street fighter 
>>>>>>>>>>> when you do
>>>>>>>>>>> a certain combination the enemy can't move and has birds flying 
>>>>>>>>>>> above their
>>>>>>>>>>> head) is another example.
>>>>>>>>>>> This style of combat would add a lot of depth and strategy and
>>>>>>>>>>> make combat feel more "alive" and dangerous and fun.  Also it adds 
>>>>>>>>>>> a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>> potential skills and techniques to our future list
>>>>>>>>>>> Injuries - with our injury and death system, swapping to keep
>>>>>>>>>>> your team healthy is important.  This is kind of a big thing but I 
>>>>>>>>>>> am sort
>>>>>>>>>>> of leaning towards thinking maybe MAYBE the hero can't die.  
>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else
>>>>>>>>>>> can, but if the hero is "knocked out" in battle, he's back after 
>>>>>>>>>>> the fight.
>>>>>>>>>>> he can then go forward to try to find the next respawn node or 
>>>>>>>>>>> maybe theres
>>>>>>>>>>> a "Recall" option where you can revert to the start of the dungeon 
>>>>>>>>>>> with all
>>>>>>>>>>> your party members intact.  i think this will eliminate a lot of 
>>>>>>>>>>> frustration
>>>>>>>>>>> as well as prevent people from keeping the hero on the sidelines 
>>>>>>>>>>> worried he
>>>>>>>>>>> will die.
>>>>>>>>>>> just as a quick guess... i am thinking you get 7 active party
>>>>>>>>>>> members (3 active, 4 tagteamable) and then an additional 7 back at 
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> "home base" that you can swap out ff style whenever you're there 
>>>>>>>>>>> for a total
>>>>>>>>>>> of 14 in your party.  We will (ideally) have 40-50 recruitable 
>>>>>>>>>>> characters so
>>>>>>>>>>> this forces you to make some decisions on who you want to pick but 
>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>> gives you a large stable of characters so you don't feel like 
>>>>>>>>>>> "shit, i have
>>>>>>>>>>> to give up one of my favs".
>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts... let me know what you think!

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