I have been very fortunate in that in my early days, I met many elderly(?) retired engineers who were willing to teach a spotty (and probably tiresome) youth some of what they had spent many years learning. Hence I was shown how to scrape surfaces, use a file, including draw filing, and many other techniques that used to be a normal part of an engineers day. As for chisels, I was at one guys house one evening as he started on the frames of a 5? locomotive. As is quite common, the width of frame steel he needed was non-standard and so he was cutting them from the next-larger size. Now, my way, and I thought about the only way, was to turn a hacksaw blade round 90 Deg in the frame and spend an evening cutting them down. No. Totally wrong. He carefully marked them out, and lightly dot punched every couple of inches. He then grabbed a large cold chisel, and a hammer of the size that Thor must use. Within ten minutes they were close to size, and after another ten minutes spent filing, there was a pair of frames, neatly cut to the line, and with half the dot marks showing. Amazing.! After that, he spent the rest of the evening teaching me to use a chisel. If I had learned 10% of what these guys showed me I would be far more able than I am, but even so, I still learned a lot and to them I will be for ever grateful. It is such a shame that we have lost so much of our engineering heritage that todays youngsters don?t have the same opportunity of meeting those craftsmen who ?served their time?. On the other hand, as from last Thursday I can draw my pension. Whilst my age means I met these guys, I?m not sure that is any compensation for youth! Alan ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST. To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to, modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.