Philip, Of what difference would it make if there were 20 definitions for "rise" and ten more for "new"? My point was that it was not a valid contention of yours to use the standard H-person's phenomenological language argument. "New" just has a different meaning, a different sense, than the one you are ascribing to it in the verse. Gary GaryLShelton@xxxxxxxxxxx -- No attachments (even text) are allowed -- -- Type: text/plain -- Desc: "AVG certification"