[SI-LIST] Re: Hyperlynx vs. Signal Explorer
- From: "Chris Cheng" <Chris.Cheng@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "si-list" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:23:52 -0800
It is even more interesting that the majority of serial link problems I =
found is the silicon vendor forgot to account for the receiving pad =
capacitance resulting in excessive ISI due to reflections. Something no =
Matlab or C++ can predict but a simple SPICE simulation will pick up in =
the first run.
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Dean Gonzales
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:09 PM
To: weston.beal@xxxxxxxxx; si-list
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Hyperlynx vs. Signal Explorer
Interestingly enough, it seems that with the advent of the newer/more
complex 5Gb+ high-speed serial links, there is a trend where many
silicon vendors are choosing to roll-their-own channel simulation tools;
many times consisting of either Matlab or C++, or a mix of both. I guess
this ties into knowing what the job is that needs doing.=3D20
Regards,
Dean Gonzales
Broadcom's Server & Storage Chipset Group
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Beal, Weston
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 2:31 PM
To: si-list
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Hyperlynx vs. Signal Explorer
This discussion comes up at least once a year and the answer is still
the same. The best description I've seen was a couple of years ago. All
EDA tools suck if you use them long enough. The deeper you get into it,
the more bugs you find. Don't go too deep into it and you'll be happy in
your ignorance :)X=3D3D20
Now, the useful answer is that you need to look at features beyond
functions. Every SI simulator simulates digital nets to some useful
accuracy. Does it interface well to your PCB layout tool? Do you need it
to? Does it output results in the way you want to use it? Does it
support models of the effects that you are concerned with? Does it have
the post-processing (waveform measurement) that you need? Is the cost
within your budget? Can you, and do you want to, automate the tool for
your work flow?
So before you go looking too far for the right tool, you should figure
out what is the job you need to do. If you just want to simulate a net
once in a while to show pretty waveforms to your manager then get the
cheapest tool you can find that makes pretty waveforms and you both will
be happy for the immediate future. If you want a fully extensible,
highly accurate, feature rich SI tool then get ready to spend some big
money and time to get it set up in your environment. Thereafter you will
find long-term joy. Most users want something in between. That's why
there are so many SI tools on the market. Decide what is important to
you and then the choice of tool will be fairly obvious.
Regards,
Weston
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of agathon
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:41 PM
To: si-list
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Hyperlynx vs Signal Explorer
I recently received a comment about just this from an acquaintance:
----
"Short answer: anyone trying to make full use of Cadence pcb si tools
for interconnect sim and who, nevertheless, recommends it could make
good use of counseling of some kind... or the receivers of that info
could make good use
of a polygraph test on the one recommending. All this based on 1st
hand
experience over time."
----
No info on Hyperlynx.
On 1/9/07, cdomeny <craig.domeny@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> We are considering adding a base-model (<GHz) SI tool to our PCB
design
> flow and have looked at Mentor Hyperlynx EXT and Cadence Orcad =
Sig=3D20
> Explorer. In research, it seems the Cadence tool does not =
actually=3D20
> perform "physical extraction", but is able to do a post-layout
analysis
> somehow. Can anyone help?
>
> Hyperlynx "seems" more mature, but cost ~2X. However, we are concerned
> also about post-layout, and if Hyperlynx actually extracts the layout,
> it seems like a more robust method.
>
> Any help, insight, or guidance is appreciated.
>
> Thanks, - Craig
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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