Weston's is the best response, for which I didn't have the patience to issue myself. I'm willing to bet that those saying the tool "is ok" and such have limited use or employing it a limited way, per Weston. My postings' "anonymous" comments reflect my own experience. That's why I posted them. I'm a cad user. Again, make a realistic 'project', get the vendor to come in and work ALL the way through it, with your prepared use and interface needs prepared beforehand. You will find what I offered to be true if it's a serious project. On 1/10/07, Beal, Weston <weston.beal@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > This discussion comes up at least once a year and the answer is still > the same. The best description I've seen was a couple of years ago. All > EDA tools suck if you use them long enough. The deeper you get into it, > the more bugs you find. Don't go too deep into it and you'll be happy in > your ignorance :)X=20 > > Now, the useful answer is that you need to look at features beyond > functions. Every SI simulator simulates digital nets to some useful > accuracy. Does it interface well to your PCB layout tool? Do you need it > to? Does it output results in the way you want to use it? Does it > support models of the effects that you are concerned with? Does it have > the post-processing (waveform measurement) that you need? Is the cost > within your budget? Can you, and do you want to, automate the tool for > your work flow? > > So before you go looking too far for the right tool, you should figure > out what is the job you need to do. If you just want to simulate a net > once in a while to show pretty waveforms to your manager then get the > cheapest tool you can find that makes pretty waveforms and you both will > be happy for the immediate future. If you want a fully extensible, > highly accurate, feature rich SI tool then get ready to spend some big > money and time to get it set up in your environment. Thereafter you will > find long-term joy. Most users want something in between. That's why > there are so many SI tools on the market. Decide what is important to > you and then the choice of tool will be fairly obvious. > > Regards, > Weston > > > -----Original Message----- > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of agathon > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 12:41 PM > To: si-list > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Hyperlynx vs Signal Explorer > > I recently received a comment about just this from an acquaintance: > ---- > "Short answer: anyone trying to make full use of Cadence pcb si tools > for > interconnect sim and who, nevertheless, recommends it could make good > use of > counseling of some kind... or the receivers of that info could make good > use > of a polygraph test on the one recommending. All this based on 1st > hand > experience over time." > > ---- > No info on Hyperlynx. > > > > On 1/9/07, cdomeny <craig.domeny@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > We are considering adding a base-model (<GHz) SI tool to our PCB > design > > flow and have looked at Mentor Hyperlynx EXT and Cadence Orcad Sig > > Explorer. In research, it seems the Cadence tool does not actually > > perform "physical extraction", but is able to do a post-layout > analysis > > somehow. Can anyone help? > > > > Hyperlynx "seems" more mature, but cost ~2X. However, we are concerned > > also about post-layout, and if Hyperlynx actually extracts the layout, > > it seems like a more robust method. > > > > Any help, insight, or guidance is appreciated. > > > > Thanks, - Craig > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: =20 > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > =20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu