[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Inbreeding - A tool to test the health of your line
- From: "Carolyn Martello" <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <SegerWind@xxxxxxx>, <Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx>, <lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:47:40 -0700
Hi Steven;
Sorry......I've been gone most of the day........slow on responding.
I don't believe I have any "issue" with outcross breeding....or even said
that???
We do outcross most of the time.....linebreed almost as much and VERY
seldom inbreed!!
In regard to the last 20 years of inbreeding causing health issues in our
breed....do you
mean by breeders in general ............or do you mean just me??? <G>
In case you mean jjust me....<G>....we have not inbred for 20 years and we have
never
developed any health issues in our lines. Are our lines perfect......"fraid
not"....<G>
We are careful to never knowingly utilize any dog with any known problem norany
known
problem in their litter. So far we have been blessed with vigorous healthy
dogs with no
long term health problems. Unfortunately yes we have gotten a mega pup
occasionally
over the years.......a truly horrific experience!! We never ever saw one
until we bred to
Sundance. There are almost no pedigrees free of Sundance. Is he to blame
for every
mega pup.......I seriously doubt it. Too many dogs before him in HIS pedigree.
We never inbreed unless it is with two dogs we have bred and know a lot about
and then
only once in a while.......and for reasons we believe to be valid.
We never do ANY breeding without a lot of worrying and studying.
Who doesn't???
NOW.....if your question about "20 yrs of inbreeding" is in regard to
breeders all over this
Nation....unlike some I cannot address what other breeders do or do not do.
But I certainly
do not know of one health issue that inbreeding can "cause"???
Inbreeding simply cannot "create genes" that are not already there!!
Inbreeding utilizes just the genetic bank of the two dogs you are
breeding.....and if you don't
bring in new ones ( good or bad ).....you are just using the same gene pool
AGAIN...and
if the inbreeding is on linebred dogs...( and it usually is ) then it is an
even smaller gene pool!
The question is......is it a good gene pool..............or a swamp! <G>
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.Marhaven.com
----- Original Message -----
From: SegerWind@xxxxxxx
To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx ;
lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx ; spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 10:06 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Inbreeding - A tool to test the health of your line
HI Carolyn my question was: 1> What is the issue with out cross breeding
based on your previous post?
2. How is that any worse than the close line breeding over the last 20
years that has perhaps created health issues in our breed? Those are my
questions:) Thank you
Steven
Segerwinds
Home of Asgards Contezza
In a message dated 9/8/2010 11:41:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
I'm not sure what the question is?
It is almost impossible to do a total outcross any more in the US with
Sundance
in just about every pedigree?
We typically linebreed more often than anything else......if that is the
question?
But I'm not clear on what "comment" you are asking about?
Carolyn _marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
_www.Marhaven.com_ (http://www.marhaven.com/)
----- Original Message -----
From: _SegerWind@xxxxxxxx (mailto:SegerWind@xxxxxxx)
To: _marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) ;
_Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxxx (mailto:Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx) ;
_lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx) ; _spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxx)
Cc: _showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 8:13 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Inbreeding - A tool to test the health of your
line
Hi Carolyn I think any& all breeders need to be aware of the issues you
bring up here, I have a question on your comment on line breeding? Have
you
not line bred with your Males, we can look at pedigrees and see line
breeding, so is that wrong? How many generations have Andretti in the
pedigree,
or Welove duchiens R-man or GV Ucker. as I look at those pedigrees I would
say line breedingf? Correct me please if I am wrong:)
Steven
Segerwinds
Home of Asgard's Contezza
In a message dated 9/8/2010 9:58:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
_marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) writes:
Not that I know of.
My point is not that you or I or anyone else should inbreed or linebreed
or outcross.......but that I think
it's a little unfair to insist that a breeder that does all of the above
should grow a litter out until they are
middle age to prove they are all fine and healthy when they do a close
linebreeding because only
outcrosses are healthy sound litters..............? If that were the
case.....none of us would ever inbreed
or closely linebreed.
So I have a question for you........
Do you think a breeder that knows more about the lines they are using for
a close breeding is MORE
accountable than a breeder that does numerous outcrosses......?
Carolyn _marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
_www.Marhaven.com_ (http://www.marhaven.com/)
----- Original Message -----
From: _SegerWind@xxxxxxxx (mailto:SegerWind@xxxxxxx) To:
_marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) ;
_Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxxx
(mailto:Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx)
; _lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx) ;
_spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxx)
Cc: _showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 7:18 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Inbreeding - A tool to test the health of your
line
OK Carolyn I have a question?? Is or are out cross breedings any worse
than all of the "inbreeding"
that has occurred in/with our breed over the last 20 years?? I am asking
a legitimate question here
and I open to anyone's opinion here on the list.
Thanks
Steven
Segerwinds
Home of Asgard's Contezza
In a message dated 9/8/2010 9:14:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
_marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) writes:
Be glad to.........as soon as you send me a 4 generation pedigree of
outcrosses that have not
produced any issues.......and show me the entire litter on your property
that you raised to middle
age to prove there were no issues like you felt Mike should do with his
close breedings. <G>
Carolyn _marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
_www.Marhaven.com_ (http://www.marhaven.com/)
----- Original Message -----
From: _Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxxx (mailto:Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx)
To: _marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) ;
_lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx) ;
_spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxx)
Cc: _showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:03 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Inbreeding - A tool to test the health of
your
line
Carolyn if you have a 4 generation pedigree that hasn't produced any
issues, forward it to me please.
Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (_http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_
(http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) )
In a message dated 9/7/2010 6:44:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
_marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) writes:
If you are utilizing and inbreeding on lines you know well, and have
not
had any health issues with
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