[ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Inbreeding - A tool to test the health of your line
- From: Jessica MacMillan <spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <segerwind@xxxxxxx>, <pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx>, <lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 10:08:31 -0500
Such a fascinating topic.
A couple of us were having a private conversation and the issue came up of GSD
pedigrees. Looking through the numerous pedigrees in the Reviews, it seems to
me that it is almost impossible to do an outcross these days without going to
an Import dog. Some of those pedigrees are actually TIGHTER and more compact
even than most inbred litters.
It seems to me, in the breed right now, there shouldn't be any focus on
inbreeding, but more on trying to losen pedigrees. Also, with the way the
pedigrees are now, it seems to me that the health issues are all visible,
because so many breedings that are so tight have been done - no reason to
inbreed.
Mike, you talk about old time breeders doing inbreedings. I think that was more
common when people WERE able to keep the number of dogs and grow out litters.
And, at least back in the 60's/70's with GSDs there were still a fair number of
German Imports accessible to breed to and losen pedigrees back up.
And here's another question. In dals, most of our popular stud dogs have lived
to be 12-13 years of age and we accept that as normal. Last year, a 6 year old
dog died - a dog who although not used heavily is probably going to be one of
the most important sires in the breed ever based on his sons and daughters.
Would you freak out to have one dog in a pedigree that died at that age from
kidney failure?
I look at the GSD Reviewed and I see all the popular sires that have died at 5,
6, 7 and I just shake my head (and you want to INBREED on this?)..
Do you accept all of that as normal too (dogs to die at 7)...
Jessica MacMillan
No Frills Dog Bathing Service & Design
Paisley Dals (www.paisleydals.com)
& The Shepherd Girls (Simmie, CGC, TDI, TC, HIC & Pepper, HIC)
Member of: DCA, GSDCA & GTCDC
From: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: SegerWind@xxxxxxx; Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx; lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx;
spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxx
CC: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Inbreeding - A tool to test the health of your line
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 07:58:05 -0700
Not that I know of.
My point is not that you or I or anyone else should inbreed or linebreed or
outcross.......but that I think
it's a little unfair to insist that a breeder that does all of the above
should grow a litter out until they are
middle age to prove they are all fine and healthy when they do a close
linebreeding because only
outcrosses are healthy sound litters..............? If that were the
case.....none of us would ever inbreed
or closely linebreed.
So I have a question for you........
Do you think a breeder that knows more about the lines they are using for a
close breeding is MORE
accountable than a breeder that does numerous outcrosses......?
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.Marhaven.com
----- Original Message -----
From: SegerWind@xxxxxxx To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx ;
lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx ; spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 7:18 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Inbreeding - A tool to test the health of your line
OK Carolyn I have a question?? Is or are out cross breedings any worse than
all of the "inbreeding"
that has occurred in/with our breed over the last 20 years?? I am asking a
legitimate question here
and I open to anyone's opinion here on the list.
Thanks
Steven
Segerwinds
Home of Asgard's Contezza
In a message dated 9/8/2010 9:14:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Be glad to.........as soon as you send me a 4 generation pedigree of
outcrosses that have not
produced any issues.......and show me the entire litter on your property
that you raised to middle
age to prove there were no issues like you felt Mike should do with his
close breedings. <G>
Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.Marhaven.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Pinehillgsds@xxxxxxx
To: marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ; lindenhillgsd@xxxxxxxxxxx ;
spotted101@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:03 AM
Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Inbreeding - A tool to test the health of your
line
Carolyn if you have a 4 generation pedigree that hasn't produced any
issues, forward it to me please.
Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC
Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions
visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/)
In a message dated 9/7/2010 6:44:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
If you are utilizing and inbreeding on lines you know well, and have not
had any health issues with
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is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the
original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of
any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of
the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group
and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions
expressed in any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
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PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
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is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original author
and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are
permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l
Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
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============================================================================
POST is Copyrighted 2010. All material remains the property of the original
author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind
are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the
Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its
administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in
any post.
ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY
MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS
PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY
FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE
PROSECUTED.
For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org
NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/
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