John, We appear to have very different experiences using NTSC VCRs. For one, I only had cable TV for a short time then moved over to satellite, as the local cable company (then) had terrible, noisy analog picture quality. I only used my VCRs to record over the air pictures, which were quite good for some channels. My wife recorded her favorite network TV shows for years this way, so my entire experience was using VCRs for over the air recording. We never did the rental tape thing. I guess I did not even consider use of VCRs with cable, again, my cable company (then) did not have basic cable that was compatible with TV sets - you had to have their set top box to even get basic service. Back then, no IR remotes to change the cable box, so you either recorded over the air, or could only record a single channel via the video out from the set top box. So, this sort of experience drove my observations below. Maybe what I was also trying to point out was that the "sudden" non-ability to record over the air shows via VCR will surprise many folks. There will also be many folks surprised that their analog TV sets quit working in Feb. 2009. My very first job in television was as the night/weekend switchboard operator at my hometown NBC affiliate station - WWBT. If the transmitter went down, or a show was preempted for some reason, my nights at the switchboard were hell - hundreds of very angry people shouting over the phone about taking away their television. I can only imagine the phone calls at TV stations across the nation the morning after the cut over. I can also imagine the number of phone calls/messages to Congress - why did the government take away my TV service? I learned a lot during my switchboard operator stint - some people take TV very, very seriously - just be at a local TV station when a soap opera gets knocked off the air then you will know the meaning of anger from strangers. I think the analog shut down will be a very, very ugly couple of days/weeks/months across the nation. BTW, I have purchased three new ATSC TV sets in the past several months. ATSC reception still sucks at my house - picture freezes and drop outs occur at random. I can watch the on-screen signal meter and the signal fades from weak to strong, in random patterns. I have tried the outdoor antenna and indoor rabbit ears. Same results - dynamic multipath is not corrected by miracle chips in the TV sets.. It does not seem to matter which manufacturer, all three function just as poorly. I have to view via satellite to enjoy watching TV. 8VSB still sucks. We could have done better. Stephen Long -----Original Message----- From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of John Shutt Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:44 PM To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [opendtv] Re: New Thread: What becomes of Legacy Analog Equipment ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen W. Long" <longsw@xxxxxxxxxxx> > I am specifically thinking about all of the NTSC VCRs out there. I must > have 10 VCRs around my house and basement, in all different versions and > capabilities, slowly acquired over the years. None of the tuners will > work > post transition. There has never been an more inaccurate statement. Those tuners will work exactly as well the day after the transition as they did the day before the transition. And I would wager that more than 75% of America's VCRs (my gut says closer to 90%) of them are either A) connected to cable, B) connected to an STB, or C) connected to no antenna at all and are either gathering dust or are used for playback only. > The coupon set top box converters will not really work - > no way to have the channel change based on time, as any VCR will do. Another mistatement. There are VCRs that are forced to be connected to STBs today. They are connected to cable and DBS STBs, where this problem has been battled for years. The two ways that are used for mulitple channel recording are A) the STB will do timed channel switching, or B) the VCR has an IR 'mouse' to remotely control the STB and change channels. Timed channel changing was not mentioned as either a required feature nor as a disqualifying feature for coupon eligible ATSC STBs, so they may be available in the near future. However, I would imagine that the timed channel change feature will not be incorporated into the first generation of Coupon STBs. The IR 'mouse' channel changing scheme usually requires one to program the VCR by selecting from a group of preprogrammed codes, so I imagine that legacy VCRs will not control Coupon STBs. That leaves no channel changing capability. However I would imagine that most cable homes where STBs are required for tiered programming, the reality is also that there are no channel changing going on there, either. You want to record 60 minutes, you tune the STB to the appropriate channel ahead of time. > I use > DVRs nowadays, so not really an issue for me, but for my parents - the VCR > is the only way to record a show. They have cable, but only in the living > room - the bedroom TV uses rabbit ears. Then they do not record programming from Discovery, TLC, the History Channel, or movies from AMC, TCM, HBO, or Showtime. If indeed they regularly record from rabbit ears exclusively, that puts them in the 25% who will have to use a coupon eligible STB, extend the cable drop into their bedroom, or transition to a newer technology such as an ATSC DVR with hard drive. The hard drive ATSC DVR is probably the best way to time shift programming, and far superior to a VCR. As the transition is in February of 2009, that gives you the perfect gift giving opportunity for the 2008 Christmas season. > So what is the impact of 100 million (or so) obsolete VCRs after the > transition? It may fill the landfills across the land. The average consumer VCR has an expected lifetime of what, 5 years? The only impact I see is lower demand in the replacement VCR market as people naturally transition to DVRs with DVD burners. Again, I predict that the vast majority of VCRs post cutoff will function exactly as they did pre-cutoff: Connect to analog tier cable. > Are there ATSC VCRs for sale? I have never seen one, but I will start > looking this shopping season. I doubt you will find any. However, why would you want to replace an NTSC VCR with an ATSC VCR? Have you ever seen the video quality of a 6 hour SLP VHS tape displayed on a 32" 720p LCD monitor? a DVR with hundreds of hours of hard drive storage is the way to go for time shifting, and DVDs are the way to go for movie viewing. Or do you also lament the inability to go to Blockbuster and rent new release movies on VHS? John ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.