Jesse said: >My son teaches machine shop and many of his students are functionally illiterate and innumerate,< In my innocence, I would have thought that you just CANNOT do much - if anything - in a machine shop without being relatively numerate. Except maybe sweep the floor and fetch the tea. I'll admit to using a calculator (although my favourite calculator is my old HP41, using Reverse Polish Notation - I've had that for 19 years now, having shamed my boss into buying it for me for work by going into a customer meeting with a slide rule in hand!) which was about 2 UKP and isn't RPN, so I have trouble driving it for anything other than very simple calculations. But I find that for a lot of the simplest marking out, I need to do a bit of calculation - things like PCDs, distances between gear centres and so on. Even have to use triganometry occasionally. So is this lack of numeracy the reason that the kids don't do well in a machine shop course? And is it perhaps why there aren't that many younger people entering model engineering? Peter Chadwick Swindon MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST. To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to, modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.