[jhb] Re: IVAO and Unwelcome ATC
- From: "bones" <bones@xxxxxxx>
- To: <jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:02:33 +0100
If controllers start trying to take control of aircraft in Class G airspace
they will be creating a rod for their own backs. Doing so will lead pilots
to expect the service. It's fine whilst traffic is light but when the
airways fill up the VFR traffic is going to become a real headache for them.
I presume the concept of uncontrolled airspace hasn't sunk in with some.
Time will show the error of their ways.
bones
-----Original Message-----
From: jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Alex Barrett
Sent: 11 September 2007 19:45
To: jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb] Re: IVAO and Unwelcome ATC
Gerry,
I had a slightly similar situation on IVAO when flying Shoreham to Lydd. Was
contacted by the active London position and asked to change to his
frequency. When on Freq I was asked to squawk and to contact him when
leaving my flight level (I was at 3,500 feet)
I decided that the best way to deal with such a confident person like that
was to be confident back, given the other traffic on the channel I didn't
want to question his actions.
I can't remember the exact reply but I confirmed the squawk, advised that I
was VFR at 3,500ft for Lydd and had planned a route via the SFD VOR, I then
told him I'd maintain a listening watch on his channel so I could be advised
of any traffic conflicts, When going into Lydd I made a courtesy call to him
that I was decending VFR (!!) into Lydd and would be leaving his frequency.
He seemed perfectly happy, I wasn't too put out and I think he realised that
he didn't really need anything from me nor vice versa.
I have no doubt that he wasn't trying to cause trouble, but was only doing
what he thought was right, I think that VFR ops is an entirely alien concept
to many of the controllers that like to vector the heavy metal around the
virtual skies. If we ain't on a airway, SID or STAR then we must be up to no
good and need vectors accordingly, or that is what I fear the mentality
could be!
As has been said, give the UK head guy, Gaz, a quick message, he's
incredibly efficient and very eager to help.
Alex
Gerry Winskill wrote:
Paul,
I had thought of trying what you suggest, in effect declining to be
controlled when that is an unreal situation. It will also be easier to pass
this on via text, rather than join his channel and get into a one to one
situation. The need to announce intentions on Unicom is a good idea.
I don't know that it's lack of confidence, in fact I suspect quite the
opposite. I found it bizarre that Scottish control should insist on giving
clearances, taxi instructions etc, at two fields, at the same time; Belfast
City and Aldergrove. Whilst at the same time controlling aircraft in flight,
half of which weren't in his zone.
Gerry Winskill
Paul Reynolds wrote:
Generally a thorny issue.
There are those who argue why join a ATC controlled environment if you
aren't going to talk to the controllers. I would argue it is also a virtual
flying environment and communication with fellow pilots when appropriate
also enhances the realism, as does having aircraft not under their control
within the sector enhance it for controllers.
If your intentions are clear and your flightplan should show you to be VFR
and local then Scottish Control should have no problem with that. I would
also go so far as saying you are something he needs to consider and act upon
when vectoring traffic but should not need to have to take control. If he
insists on controlling all traffic in Scotland then I would suggest it is
his lack of confidence in his own abilities that drives him to it - keeping
IFR and VFR seperated is one of the challenges controllers have to deal with
and something he may not be comfortable with. Having you 'on channel' will
give him a comfort zone, he can then vector that slow moving aircraft away
from his fast moving heavy metal if he needs to.
My personal postion would be to txt him stating clearly your intentions to
remain VFR at or below XXXX within the boundaries of the island. You will
squawk 7000, as is recgonised practice within the UK and will transmit
intentions to traffic on 122.80 as is standard practice.
Further, should Scottish Control tell you to contact them tell them politely
you are outside their airspace, Ronaldsway is in the EGTM_CTR sector in
IVAO. Therefore any traffic would naturally expect you to be broadcasting
intentions on 122.80 where EGTM_CTR are not present or not with EGNS.
If you don't want to do this then try e-mailing Gareth Richardson (Division
Director of the UK Division - gb-dir@xxxxxxxxx) and seek clarification.
I'd draw attention to some of the issues raised here, including the support
for newcomers to ease them in through VFR to gain confidence and trasition
into controlled airspace. Hopefully things can be resolved amicably if
handled with care.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Gerry Winskill
Sent: 10 September 2007 18:52
To: jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [jhb] IVAO and Unwelcome ATC
Is there a mechanism for feeding comments and requests into IVAO?
I ask because just as I was about to join, for the odd 45 mins of local
VFR flight in the IOM, I noticed that Scottish Control had just switched
on. Past experience suggests he will contact me, insisting on giving
clearances etc, despite my being VFR and despite my being outside his
zone. When I mentioned this to him, a couple of weeks ago, he said that
if London Control isn't covered then he handles this as well. So I've
logged off. Why? Because it's nice to have the occasional low profile
flight, without the sound of RT intruding into other rooms. It's also
pleasant to be able to fly without reference to ATC, when the real world
rules would be permitting this. If RW pilots could only fly under ATC
control, then I guess there'd be fewer of them.
I appreciate the chap might mean well and might like to talk to flyers
but a look at IVAPEye shows that he has 4 IFR flights in his area, or
shortly to be in it.. If pilots, quite reasonably, have to obey the
rules, then the same criteria should apply to controllers. Another very
valid reason for not being enthusiastic about his unneccesary
involvement is that we've assured our less experienced members that VFR
flights, outside controlled airspace, will leave them not having to
worry about ATC contacts until they feel they are ready. At the moment
that should bear the caveat; provided it's in the South of England,
where the London Controller reacts normally to VFR flights.
Any suggestions on who I might tactfully put this view to? Or reasons
why others think I'm being unreasonable.
Gerry Winskill
--
Alex Barrett
Turbine Sound Studios
(+44) 0121 288 3195
alex@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.turbinesoundstudios.com
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