I must admit I hadn't thought of the possibillity it might be down to lack of exposure to VFR.
Gerry Winskill bones wrote:
If controllers start trying to take control of aircraft in Class G airspace they will be creating a rod for their own backs. Doing so will lead pilots to expect the service. It's fine whilst traffic is light but when the airways fill up the VFR traffic is going to become a real headache for them. I presume the concept of uncontrolled airspace hasn't sunk in with some. Time will show the error of their ways. bones-----Original Message----- *From:* jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Alex Barrett *Sent:* 11 September 2007 19:45 *To:* jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx *Subject:* [jhb] Re: IVAO and Unwelcome ATC Gerry, I had a slightly similar situation on IVAO when flying Shoreham to Lydd. Was contacted by the active London position and asked to change to his frequency. When on Freq I was asked to squawk and to contact him when leaving my flight level (I was at 3,500 feet) I decided that the best way to deal with such a confident person like that was to be confident back, given the other traffic on the channel I didn't want to question his actions. I can't remember the exact reply but I confirmed the squawk, advised that I was VFR at 3,500ft for Lydd and had planned a route via the SFD VOR, I then told him I'd maintain a listening watch on his channel so I could be advised of any traffic conflicts, When going into Lydd I made a courtesy call to him that I was decending VFR (!!) into Lydd and would be leaving his frequency. He seemed perfectly happy, I wasn't too put out and I think he realised that he didn't really need anything from me nor vice versa. I have no doubt that he wasn't trying to cause trouble, but was only doing what he thought was right, I think that VFR ops is an entirely alien concept to many of the controllers that like to vector the heavy metal around the virtual skies. If we ain't on a airway, SID or STAR then we must be up to no good and need vectors accordingly, or that is what I fear the mentality could be! As has been said, give the UK head guy, Gaz, a quick message, he's incredibly efficient and very eager to help. Alex Gerry Winskill wrote:Paul, I had thought of trying what you suggest, in effect declining to be controlled when that is an unreal situation. It will also be easier to pass this on via text, rather than join his channel and get into a one to one situation. The need to announce intentions on Unicom is a good idea. I don't know that it's lack of confidence, in fact I suspect quite the opposite. I found it bizarre that Scottish control should insist on giving clearances, taxi instructions etc, at two fields, at the same time; Belfast City and Aldergrove. Whilst at the same time controlling aircraft in flight, half of which weren't in his zone. Gerry Winskill Paul Reynolds wrote:Generally a thorny issue. There are those who argue why join a ATC controlled environment if you aren't going to talk to the controllers. I would argue it is also a virtual flying environment and communication with fellow pilots when appropriate also enhances the realism, as does having aircraft not under their control within the sector enhance it for controllers. If your intentions are clear and your flightplan should show you to be VFR and local then Scottish Control should have no problem with that. I would also go so far as saying you are something he needs to consider and act upon when vectoring traffic but should not need to have to take control. If he insists on controlling all traffic in Scotland then I would suggest it is his lack of confidence in his own abilities that drives him to it - keeping IFR and VFR seperated is one of the challenges controllers have to deal with and something he may not be comfortable with. Having you 'on channel' will give him a comfort zone, he can then vector that slow moving aircraft away from his fast moving heavy metal if he needs to. My personal postion would be to txt him stating clearly your intentions to remain VFR at or below XXXX within the boundaries of the island. You will squawk 7000, as is recgonised practice within the UK and will transmit intentions to traffic on 122.80 as is standard practice. Further, should Scottish Control tell you to contact them tell them politely you are outside their airspace, Ronaldsway is in the EGTM_CTR sector in IVAO. Therefore any traffic would naturally expect you to be broadcasting intentions on 122.80 where EGTM_CTR are not present or not with EGNS. If you don't want to do this then try e-mailing Gareth Richardson (Division Director of the UK Division - gb-dir@xxxxxxxxx) and seek clarification. I'd draw attention to some of the issues raised here, including the support for newcomers to ease them in through VFR to gain confidence and trasition into controlled airspace. Hopefully things can be resolved amicably if handled with care. Paul -----Original Message----- From: jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jhb-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Gerry Winskill Sent: 10 September 2007 18:52 To: jhb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [jhb] IVAO and Unwelcome ATC Is there a mechanism for feeding comments and requests into IVAO? I ask because just as I was about to join, for the odd 45 mins of local VFR flight in the IOM, I noticed that Scottish Control had just switched on. Past experience suggests he will contact me, insisting on giving clearances etc, despite my being VFR and despite my being outside his zone. When I mentioned this to him, a couple of weeks ago, he said thatif London Control isn't covered then he handles this as well. So I'velogged off. Why? Because it's nice to have the occasional low profile flight, without the sound of RT intruding into other rooms. It's also pleasant to be able to fly without reference to ATC, when the real world rules would be permitting this. If RW pilots could only fly under ATC control, then I guess there'd be fewer of them. I appreciate the chap might mean well and might like to talk to flyers but a look at IVAPEye shows that he has 4 IFR flights in his area, or shortly to be in it.. If pilots, quite reasonably, have to obey the rules, then the same criteria should apply to controllers. Another very valid reason for not being enthusiastic about his unneccesary involvement is that we've assured our less experienced members that VFR flights, outside controlled airspace, will leave them not having to worry about ATC contacts until they feel they are ready. At the moment that should bear the caveat; provided it's in the South of England, where the London Controller reacts normally to VFR flights. Any suggestions on who I might tactfully put this view to? Or reasons why others think I'm being unreasonable. Gerry Winskill-- Alex BarrettTurbine Sound Studios (+44) 0121 288 3195 alex@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.turbinesoundstudios.com
