[amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
- From: "Jeff Banks" <banksje@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:53:59 -0700
Russell,
There is a general roller maintenance that is scheduled for 4,000,000
stitches. I believe in older software it may have been 2,000,000. But in all
newer software, and I believe it to version 6 or higher, it is 4,000,000.
I miss-understood and thought you wanted to count stitches by needle to be
able to know when to replace a needle. To count stitches per needle for
roller wear is not going to work 100% either, I think I have pointed out
where different threads and different environments can and will wear them
differently. All you can do is clean, lubricate, and inspect them at an
interval that hopefully will prevent problems due to their needing
attention. Right now we have set this interval at 4 million.
Jeff Banks
Melco Embroidery Systems
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Silva" <russell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:47 PM
Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
> Jeff,
>
> I didn't mean to have a counter for each needle for needle wear, I
> thought it would be good for roller maintenance, if you only put 10,000
> stitches on some needles and 1,000,000 on others, why would you check the
> rollers with a small amount of use to see if they need to be cleaned and
> greased? I can't always remember which needles I used more or used less by
> the time the roller maintenance timer comes up. I hope I didn't open a can
> of worms with my comment.
>
> Russell
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Banks" <banksje@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:59 PM
> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>
>
>> Russell,
>>
>> This has been thrown around for awhile. Let's talk about it. How would
>> you
>> handle this? By number of stitches? How many stitches is it before a
>> needle
>> goes bad? And on what type of garments? Needles on structured caps go bad
>> much faster than on soft knit polo shirts. Needles sewing with metallic
>> thread go bad faster than with a soft poly or rayon thread. Spun threads
>> such as spun wool or cotton are very abrasive as well. Then you have the
>> different types of needles, Titanium lasts longer than standard, then you
>> have the Teflon Coated etc. At first thought it sounds like a good idea,
>> but
>> in actuality there are too many variables.
>>
>> I know I am going to hear some resistantance to my next statements, but
>> this is my opinion on the entire situation of maintenance. I do not like
>> the
>> maintenance timers period. It takes the common sense out of maintaining
>> your
>> machine. To say to oil something at a certain interval of stitches then
>> makes the owner/operator believe they are ok because they oil at the
>> interval indicated. What about a machine used 24 hours a day, 7 days a
>> week,
>> (there are many in this situation), what about the humidity, the
>> temperature, etc. etc. etc...... The type of environment plays a big
>> role.
>> Is the machine in a nice clean room, or in a warehouse with lots of dust
>> and
>> heat, or what ever? What about a machine that had 1000 stitches sewn and
>> then it sat for 2 months, don't you think the hook at the very least
>> should
>> be oiled before sewing on it? Just some thoughts to think about.
>>
>> I feel maintenance is a common sense thing. Black, white, red, and a few
>> other color threads are more commonly used than other colors. These
>> needles
>> and mechanics including the thread feed rollers are going to get more use
>> than the others. They should get more attention. Many contract embroidery
>> houses have a regular schedule they go buy. They may stop all production
>> 30
>> minutes before closing. This time is used to blow out all the hooks, oil
>> them, change any needle where 2 or more thread breaks happened in a day,
>> etc. etc. Then there may be a weekly schedule, and/or a bi-weekly
>> schedule.
>> Many change all needle weekly or bi-weekly no matter what. Needles are
>> cheaper than the time lost fighting a bad needle on a machine that is
>> causing thread breaks. If you have machines that are set up to do only
>> one
>> type of item, such as caps, these machines are going to require a little
>> more care and maintenance. Structured caps will wear a sharp needle down
>> to
>> a ball type of needle quickly. If you are sewing on structured caps all
>> day,
>> change needles often and at least once daily. This will improve quality
>> and
>> decrease problems caused by bad needles. The buckram in a structured cap
>> leaves a fine dust on everything. Hooks get dirty and clogged very
>> quickly.
>> Not only does oiling need to be stepped up, but cleaning of the bobbin
>> case
>> increased as well. Using adhesives sprays for appliqui or tackle twill
>> gets
>> things dirty quicker as well. It will clog hooks and get buggers of
>> adhesives on the shafts of the needles. If the spray is used in open
>> areas
>> and the machines are in the same area the over spray in the air gets on
>> everything. Thread feed rollers may need to be cleaned more frequently
>> and
>> general cleaning done more often to prevent build up on bearings in the X
>> Carriage assembly and other critical places.
>>
>> I could ramble on forever, but I think you all get my point. The
>> maintenance timers are not the gospel, just a guide to help. Nothing is
>> written in stone. Do not let the maintenance timers take away from good
>> common sense. Set up schedules that certain routines are done on
>> schedule,
>> not by stitches sewn. The schedule should be set according to what type
>> of
>> goods and threads being used during that period of time. When there are
>> multiple machines running it is hard to stop and do maintenance on 1 of
>> the
>> machines. It takes the computer away from the others during the
>> maintenance
>> time. Very inconvenient to say the least. It is better to reset the
>> timer,
>> and write down what schedule it is that it wants done, and then perform
>> it
>> at the end of the day or shift. The machine will not have a melt down if
>> the
>> 20,000,000 maintenance is not done at that exact moment. The exception to
>> this is the oiling of the hook(s) which must be done during the busy day
>> as
>> needed.
>>
>> Sorry to ramble, :)
>>
>> Jeff Banks
>> Melco Embroidery Systems
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Russell Silva" <russell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:00 AM
>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>
>>
>>> Is there a way to check how many stitches each needle has sewn? if not
>>> that
>>> would be a good addition to the OS so you would know what needles need
>>> to
>>> be
>>> checked without guessing all the time, checking every thread feed roller
>>> every time the maintenance timer comes up is very time consuming
>>> especially
>>> when you have several machines.
>>>
>>> Russell
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rod or Sharon" <springer37@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:39 AM
>>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mary,
>>>> I have found that applying a droplet approximately the size of a B B,
>>>> you
>>>> know, like they shoot out of BB guns, to each side of yellow roller hub
>>>> receptacle in the machine and on the red pinch roller axle hub, appears
>>>> to
>>>> be sufficient. It doesn't, take all that much but as I mentioned
>>>> before,
>>>> every needle receives different wear because of the individual use. Too
>>>> much
>>>> lube and it will just get thrown around and guess where it may wind up
>>>> gravitating to? You guessed it, either on the thread, the garment, the
>>>> rollers or all of the above.
>>>>
>>>> If most people are like Sharon and I , we have our favorite spot on the
>>>> thread pallet for red,white, blue and black. There are some others, but
>>>> these seem to be used more often than any of the others. It is only
>>>> logical
>>>> then to assume that these needles/rollers/needle bars are going to need
>>>> more
>>>> attention than the others. Grease/oil can dry up/out even if the
>>>> lubricated
>>>> item is not being used. The rotary hook for example, to extend it's
>>>> life
>>>> ,
>>>> should be oiled more often. I advise clients that with continuous
>>>> running,
>>>> to lubricate at least every 4 hours(uncoated hook) and to oil the hook
>>>> at
>>>> the start of each day before running the first design.
>>>>
>>>> The coated hooks are touted to be lubed every 600,000 stitches. These
>>>> have
>>>> a
>>>> black coating on them. I am from the old school and do let these go
>>>> longer
>>>> between oiling, but if I am going to be doing a production run, I oil
>>>> the
>>>> hook.
>>>>
>>>> Rod Springer
>>>>
>>>> Embroidery Cottage
>>>> Rod & Sharon Springer
>>>>
>>>> Melco Amaya Tech & Trainer
>>>> Design Shop Pro+ Digitizing
>>>>
>>>> Boise, ID 83713
>>>> 208-938-3038
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Shuffletown Embroidery" <shuffemb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 8:42 AM
>>>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Rod,
>>>>> Thank you for this explanation. I have been curious as to why we were
>>>>> being
>>>>> instructed to lubricate the hub of the rollers since the grease would
>>>>> just
>>>>> get everywhere.
>>>>> Can you find the words to say exactly how much grease to put on each
>>>>> side
>>>>> of
>>>>> the yellow thread feed rollers and on the red pinch roller? I would
>>>>> very
>>>>> much appreciate this info.
>>>>> Mary
>>>>>
>>>>> Mary Buckle
>>>>> Shuffletown Embroidery
>>>>> Charlotte, NC
>>>>> 704-398-1273
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:amayausers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rod or Sharon
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:35 AM
>>>>> To: amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>>>>
>>>>> Beverly,
>>>>> The new style yellow rollers are a definite improvement over the black
>>>>> ones
>>>>> but they are critical to a couple of important items. The first is
>>>>> proper
>>>>> lubrication, especially the little red pinch rollers. Both the red
>>>>> pinch
>>>>> rollers and the yellow thread feed rollers need to be removed
>>>>> periodically
>>>>> and cleaned . It is difficult to say just how long between cleanings
>>>>> one
>>>>> should wait. This would depend on how much one needle is used over
>>>>> another
>>>>> and the wear each individual roller system would receive. Pop off a
>>>>> couple
>>>>> of the more used red pinch rollers, black or white thread for example
>>>>> or
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> ones that seem to be giving you the most trouble, and look carefully
>>>>> at
>>>>> the
>>>>> axle hub that it rotates on. If they appear dry and/or you can see a
>>>>> red
>>>>> powder looking residue on the axle hub the red pinch roller rotates
>>>>> on,
>>>>> it
>>>>> is imperative that they be cleaned and lubricated.
>>>>>
>>>>> A good pre-sign that lubrication may be the culprit, is the thread
>>>>> tracking
>>>>> to the left side of the roller as you indicated in your post.
>>>>>
>>>>> The second thing that is critical with the new rollers is that if any
>>>>> oil
>>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>>> grease gets on the surface of them, the tread will track clear off of
>>>>> the
>>>>> left side of the rollers and cause a bird-nest. They must be kept
>>>>> clean.
>>>>> To
>>>>> clean them, take them out----both the red pinch rollers and yellow
>>>>> thread
>>>>> feed rollers........, and wash them with warm soapy water,
>>>>> re-lubricate
>>>>> and
>>>>> replace them being very careful not to get any lubricating grease back
>>>>> on
>>>>> the surface of the rollers. I always wash my hands after applying the
>>>>> lubricating greas e with a cotton q-tip before re-attaching the red
>>>>> rollers
>>>>> and inserting the yellow rollers. I apply the grease to the axle hub
>>>>> the
>>>>> red
>>>>>
>>>>> roller rotates on and the hub area in the machine that the yellow
>>>>> roller
>>>>> rotates in, I do not apply any grease direcly to the rollers
>>>>> themselves
>>>>> as
>>>>> it is very difficult not to transfer grease all over the place.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another item worthy of mention, along this same line, is how long has
>>>>> it
>>>>> been since the needle bar shafts were last oiled? This too can create
>>>>> thread
>>>>>
>>>>> break problems for the same reason as above. Some needles get used
>>>>> more
>>>>> often than others and therefore should receive more attention in the
>>>>> lubrication field. How fast are you running your designs? Remember
>>>>> additional speed equals more friction which generates heat which means
>>>>> lubrication is and will be a very critical element in being successful
>>>>> while
>>>>>
>>>>> using the Amaya..
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this helps
>>>>>
>>>>> Rod Springer
>>>>>
>>>>> Embroidery Cottage
>>>>> Rod & Sharon Springer
>>>>>
>>>>> Melco Amaya Tech & Trainer
>>>>> Design Shop Pro+ Digitizing
>>>>>
>>>>> Boise, ID 83713
>>>>> 208-938-3038
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Beverly Thompson" <beverlyt@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 7:32 AM
>>>>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Herb,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for the advice. I am running anvil rib tees, using 2
>>>>>> cutaway,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> mt of 4. It seems that alot of times when it breaks there's a little
>>>>>> loop
>>>>>> of thread behind the roller wheel. also on some of the rollers it
>>>>>> looks
>>>>>> like the yellow roller is far to the right and the thread barely on
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>> Could that be a problem?
>>>>>> As far as the needles, I always check to see if the eye is straight,
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> i make an adjustment there. thanks for the magnifer tip, i find i
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> trouble seeing even with my glasses. So your saying go up to 6 mt
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> try
>>>>>> that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Beverly Thompson
>>>>>> Perdido Beach Embroidery
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "HK Acree" <hkacree@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 12:16 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [amayausers] Re: Thread Breaks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bev,
>>>>>>> After the change in rollers the material thickness you were used to
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> changes. Bump it up by 2 to begin with then check your work and
>>>>>>> adjust
>>>>>>> accordingly. You should see far less thread breaks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for your needles. Rod Springer really helped me on this one. Get
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> magnifier with the light in it. Cheap at Home Depot, $2.50.
>>>>>>> Look at the groove in the needle. This represents the eye. Tweak it
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> hair
>>>>>>> and the needles are set.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would appreciate some feedback on this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Herb
>>>>>>> Royal Embroidery
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Beverly Thompson" <beverlyt@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <amayausers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 5:51 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [amayausers] Thread Breaks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Everybody,
>>>>>>>> did the roller upgrade on my machines, not the software. i am
>>>>>>>> starting
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> get thread breaks again. some needles run good others not. I
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> it was how they were put in or anything because a tech did it.
>>>>>>>> Can someone tell me again how to clean the rollers in case its
>>>>>>>> grease.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Beverly Thompson
>>>>>>>> Perdido Beach Embroidery
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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