Ah Ha! Now I see where you are heading Harry. I wonder if the British lokies also used a tapered crank pin? I always wondered how those valve motion cranks could be made tight enough to not slip at some time since they seem to be just clamped to the pin. Of course with piston valves there is no real stress that might cause slippage, but slide valves are a different can of worms altogether. Anyway, I have never had to worry with the return crank since my lokies all have Stephenson gear with four eccentrics, well, all but the Filer and Stowell which has no eccentrics or valve motion at all. Now, you gonna have to put a sign on your lokie detailing the crankpin design or it will be totally missed by us plebeians! [:>) Jesse MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST. To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to, modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.