Allen D You basic position seems to me to be that formal logic is the only method of resolving a proposition, or that failing to include its use, will result in failure. This leads to the ridiculous position of grown men sitting around wasting their time debating how many teeth a horse has and seriously expecting that the matter might be satisfactorily resolved. Logic is a useful tool, but it is by no means the only tool. Trial and error for instance works. It requires no skills in logic, maths, expression or a hundred other skills. But though it is inefficient, none the less, it works. And there are many other ways to resolve propositions. Now you could make a giant advance in your understanding of life, the universe and everything if you would give a simple answer to Philip's question -- are you standing on world A or world B? This is a proposition which does not require the use of abstruse esoteric formal logic, or complex maths, or a Shakespearean command of English. It does however require a desire to arrive at a resolution. Give it a try. Paul D PS I'm not deliberately dodging the issues you've raised -- we can return to those. What I'm trying to do is to get you to see that this rarefied logical approach you've used on this forum for the whole of the time I've been here -- simply isn't working. It may work among others who share your approach, but it isn't working here. The aphorism concerning cats and the manner of skinning them, is relevant. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com