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<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff>Paul,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#4040ff><STRONG>You are obviously confussed about a great 
deal........</STRONG></FONT><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, 
serif" size=2><EM>After further searches for&nbsp;unequivocal evidence that 
<STRONG><U>you do indeed claim that acceleration caused by gravity can be 
measured internal to the body being accelerated -- free fall</U></STRONG> -- I 
submit the following (relevant portion shown in (my addition) italics) 
-</EM></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, 
sans-serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><STRONG><U>ABSOLUTLY!?</U></STRONG>&nbsp; Paul,&nbsp;I went one 
step further, &nbsp;it is not a&nbsp;&nbsp;"claim", it is a fact of reality in 
any and every ref frame you can create!<STRONG> <U>&amp; I 
NEVER,&nbsp;EVER&nbsp;SUGGERSTED OTHERWISE.....!?</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><STRONG>you did not&nbsp;get it&nbsp;.....so here it is 
again......</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>.******************** <FONT face="times new roman, 
new york, times, serif"><EM>I did not <STRONG><U>claim</U></STRONG> that "an 
accelerometer would indicate a change in velocity due to gravity" 
..<STRONG><U><FONT size=4>I stated as a fact</FONT></U></STRONG> that 
<U><STRONG><FONT size=4>any change in whatever interial 
state</FONT></STRONG></U> <FONT color=#0000ff>( in GTR/STR Gravity and inertia 
are one and the same)</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"> <FONT 
size=4><U><STRONG>you are in, no matter what you take as your interial "ref 
frame", </STRONG></U><FONT size=2>that</FONT><U><STRONG> for a fact, in-deed 
and in application that change will and has and always will be detectable as 
you said "for ever and ever amen"!</STRONG></U>.....</FONT>I have "steped up to 
the plate" and
 showed, demonstrated and even cited proof. It is you keep changing ("Making 
like an eel in a bucket of warm fat") the approach without ever addressing my 
original post (quantum &amp; laser gyros/accelerometers) or my secondary post 
to your "mass/spring" diversion. <U><STRONG>I have already shown you clearly 
and specificly how and exactly why a accelerometor can and will and in fact 
does measure any change in the intertial state, in a free fall or 
not</STRONG></U>. The only outstanding issues left to be addressed 
<U><STRONG>if any are ones of scale</STRONG></U> <U><STRONG>not practical/ 
actual application(s)</STRONG></U></FONT></FONT></FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><B></B></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><B>**************************</B></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><STRONG><U>Not only did you miss the emphisis complely, but I did 
not even word&nbsp;my&nbsp;position that way&nbsp;...!? 
</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><STRONG></STRONG></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><STRONG>Continuing Now:..... back to the 
issues......</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><STRONG>-Gravity and&nbsp; </STRONG></FONT><FONT 
color=#0000ff><STRONG>inertia are one and the same thing in MS.....!? 
</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><STRONG>-An acceleration is&nbsp;a change by defintion but a 
change wrt what!?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><STRONG>That is why my previous post addressed 
the&nbsp;grav/inertia&nbsp;and acceleration issues&nbsp;as 
follows.........</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><FONT 
color=#0000ff><STRONG>Snip.................</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT face="arial, helvetica, 
sans-serif">&nbsp;</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif" color=#0000ff 
size=2><EM>If the earth remained stationary&nbsp;wrt a distanct 
star&nbsp;but&nbsp; a car on the earth first sitting at rest then began 
to&nbsp;accelerate by&nbsp;1g due to that same distanct star, &nbsp;would that 
motion be detected by your mass accelerometer in the car or 
not?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</EM></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, 
serif" size=2><EM>&nbsp;</EM></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM><FONT face="times new roman, new york, 
times, serif"><STRONG><U>There are only two posibilites</U></STRONG>: 
</FONT></EM></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, 
serif" size=2><EM>&nbsp;</EM></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM><FONT face="times new roman, new york, 
times, serif"><STRONG><U>1. If not</U>....... </STRONG>then please 
expalin&nbsp;to everyone what&nbsp;causes&nbsp;the tides and planitary bulges 
so we can establish the underlying physics for gravity/ 
inertia.....?&nbsp;</FONT></EM></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, 
serif" size=2><EM>&nbsp;</EM></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM><FONT face="times new roman, new york, 
times, serif"><STRONG><U>2. If so</U>......... </STRONG>then the 
only&nbsp;difference is scale of the effects....between <U><STRONG>a car laying 
horizonaly on the earths suface and&nbsp;"free falling at 1g toward a distant 
star</STRONG></U>&nbsp;&nbsp;or <U><STRONG>a bomb hanging&nbsp;horizonaly to a 
distant star and free falling 1 g to earth's 
suface....</STRONG></U></FONT></EM></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, 
serif" size=2><EM>&nbsp;</EM></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM><FONT face="times new roman, new york, 
times, serif"><U><STRONG>The problem with your&nbsp;"mass and spring" &nbsp;is 
only one of resolution or scale</STRONG></U> that is why I appealed to quantum 
and laser acclerometers/ gyros. It is not that the effect is not there in 
relaity it is just that in relaity our mass on a spring is not sinsitive 
enougph to measure what is taking place regaurdless of GU or HC 
universe.......</FONT></EM></FONT></FONT></P>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif"><FONT face="arial, helvetica, 
sans-serif">.........................................</FONT><BR><FONT 
face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><STRONG>Let me futher expand on the thought 
there with the car in that previous email........hint ....the car is 
accelerated&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;to the distant star as the 
...Oceans.....tides...are accelerated by/ to&nbsp;the distant 
moon....via...??....ummmmm......it starts with a "Grav" and ends with 
a....."ity".</STRONG></FONT>&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif">
<P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=1><U><STRONG><FONT size=3>..now jump to point 
# 2.</FONT> <EM><FONT size=2>If so</FONT></EM></STRONG></U></FONT><FONT 
size=2><EM><STRONG>.........</STRONG> then the only&nbsp;<U><STRONG>difference 
is scale of the effects</STRONG></U>....between <U><STRONG>a car laying 
horizonaly on the earths suface and&nbsp;"free falling at 1g toward a distant 
star</STRONG></U>&nbsp;&nbsp;or <U><STRONG>a bomb hanging&nbsp;horizonaly to a 
distant star and free falling 1 g to earth's 
suface....</STRONG></U></EM></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif"><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><STRONG>If gravity acts on all 
parts of the accelerometer equally and simoltaniouly then ......come on, the 
fire works and light bulb&nbsp;should have gone off days&nbsp;ago by 
now....!?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif"></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>All and any of my post were&nbsp;all 
addressing&nbsp;the exact same issue in the&nbsp; same way!?</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT 
color=#0000ff>In my last Posting&nbsp;I decided to exand upon your questions 
but only so far as to put another nail in and Prove my point and&nbsp;add more 
highlight to&nbsp;your error. If you can't understand your logical error here 
then all the math in the world will not prove anything excpect to discrtiact 
from the&nbsp;issue...<U><STRONG>YOU HAVE A LOGICAL CONTRIDICTION IN YOUR/MS 
&nbsp;EXPLINATIONS/&nbsp;UNDERSTANDING/APPLICATIONS</STRONG></U>&nbsp;of 
Gravity, inertia and "inertial reference frames"....just to name a 
few...!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, 
sans-serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif" size=2>I will not 
be diverted by your attempted sleight of hand tricks. <STRONG><U>Point out the 
error in my closing paragraph</U></STRONG> or forever hold to 
silence.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<P><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif" size=2><EM>Paul 
D</EM></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif"><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=4>That is what you asked for and that is what i gave 
you......!?</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>Read it 
again....</STRONG></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif"><EM><FONT size=2>"I'm going to be charitable and assume that you still 
do not grasp what I'm saying about 
accelerometers........................</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif">
<P><EM><FONT size=2>Now for the crunch, the bit where our velocity changes due 
to acceleration by gravity. (Note - from a recent post from Regner, perhaps 
'speed' is more appropriate here -- please comment if you think it appropriate. 
In any event, what I'm trying to convey is that our rate of travel increases). 
This time, we place our vehicle into elliptical orbit -- around Earth will 
suffice -- and as we pass apogee, we begin to accelerate. At this moment we 
place our accelerometer 1 kg mass outside the vehicle with velocities matched 
and engage our distance and time measuring devices. After we have passed 
perigee we will have stopped accelerating and begin decelerating. <U><STRONG>At 
no time from apogee to perigee will the 1 kg mass have fallen behind or 
overtaken us and this will not change from perigee back to apogee and so on for 
ever and ever amen.</STRONG></U> Despite acceleration and deceleration due to 
gravity in an elliptical orbit, <U>our
 accelerometer will indicate no change in velocity</U><FONT 
color=#0000ff><STRONG><U>.",,</U></STRONG>OK quite simply your wrong ...why? 
..Then how exactly does the moon accelerate the ocean tides separate and very 
disticntive&nbsp;( in my opinion)&nbsp;&nbsp;from the rest of the mass on the 
earth it passes over.......<U><STRONG>why, it appears to take the 
water&nbsp;wrt land and&nbsp;"leave it behind"</STRONG></U> 
&nbsp;.........ummm&nbsp; ..............Maybe it has somthing to do with 
"</FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>Hooke's law of elasticity"..!? 
&nbsp;:-)</FONT></FONT></EM></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><U><STRONG><EM>The error in your closing 
paragraph....&nbsp;here it is.....</EM></STRONG></U></FONT></P>
<P><STRONG><EM><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff>You can't use gravity to create 
</FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>"Differential Forces" &amp; effects and then use the 
same causes for thoese same forces to cause the same forces to be 
"non-differential"&nbsp;(wrt measurable acceleration) all at the same 
time...!?..I suppose though that is&nbsp;"the micicle of modern 
scicence"</FONT></FONT></EM></STRONG></P></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif"><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><EM>Again&nbsp; class, .....in MS Gravity and 
inertia are one and the same, and&nbsp;acceleration (&amp; even direction 
too:-)&nbsp;is <U><STRONG>always and only wrt</STRONG></U>&nbsp;the "almighty" 
&nbsp;"INERTIAL REFERENCE FRAME".....<U><STRONG>?????</STRONG></U>&nbsp; Does 
the sun &amp; or moon accelerate the tides or not ?</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><EM><FONT size=2><U><STRONG>If&nbsp; not 
then</STRONG></U> where do the tides come from ?..:-)&nbsp;<U><STRONG>If it 
does then</STRONG></U> <U>how can</U> <U>you claim that</U> <U>you could not 
detect or measure&nbsp;an acceleration</U> using a "mass/spring"/ earth v water 
( im herby now invoking "<FONT color=#000000><FONT color=#0000ff>Hooke's law of 
elasticity</FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>"..i think:-)</FONT>&nbsp;of a body 
in free fall within&nbsp;"inertial ref frames"?</FONT></EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif"><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><EM><FONT size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif"><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><EM>NOW..ummm.. couph.....exactly why do you 
think that your mass outside your craft would not get left behind 
again.........?????</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif">................................<BR><FONT color=#0000ff>However all of 
this was a distraction you inserted away from my primar&nbsp;address which 
as&nbsp;i&nbsp;pointed out&nbsp;so many times was...........</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif">
<P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=3><U><STRONG>"The problem with 
your&nbsp;"mass and spring" &nbsp;is only one of resolution or 
scale</STRONG></U> that is why I appealed to quantum and laser acclerometers/ 
gyros.<STRONG><U> It is not that the effect is not there in relaity it is just 
that in relaity our mass on a spring is not sinsitive enougph to measure what 
is taking place regaurdless of GU or HC 
universe......."</U></STRONG></FONT></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif"><FONT color=#0000ff>Can you see/appreciate the full extent 
of&nbsp;your/MS problem(s)&nbsp;now?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif">&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif"><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, 
serif">----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Paul Deema 
&lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>To: Geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Sent: 
Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:16:45 AM<BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration 
calcs<BR><BR>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;Allen D</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>After further searches for&nbsp;unequivocal evidence that you do indeed 
claim that acceleration caused by gravity can be measured internal to the body 
being accelerated -- free fall -- I submit the following (relevant portion 
shown in (my addition) italics) -</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>
<P>From allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Tue Jan 29 00:00:10 2008</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P><FONT face="Times New Roman">
<P></FONT><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I know I was in part piggy 
backing ..........but for good reason ;-)... my point was that description does 
not describe the earth's orbit at all because <U>the acceleration rate must 
change.</U> The calcs we provided were only the average or mean acceleration 
rate not the constant rate. The earth's orbit demands<FONT size=4> </FONT><FONT 
color=#808000><FONT color=#000000><EM>changes in acceleration rates and that is 
what we are looking for and that is what can be measured</EM></FONT> </FONT>and 
what we should expect to be measured. This is part of my thesis for why 
acceleration and gravity are not one and the same thing....gyroscopes operate 
primarily on the gravitational forces within any given gravitational field 
where acceleration is a change only wrt the ARF. My arguments are pointing to 
the fact that even though the gyroscope may not be able to detect a 
translational motion of a body the
 acceleration rate of that same body and in fact any motion of any body period 
can and is detected even within the earth's gravitational field.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, 
sans-serif">&nbsp;</FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></P>
<DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>
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