Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. --0-371253824-1206030545=:50680 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:14pt"><DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#4040ff>Paul,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#4040ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#4040ff><STRONG>You are obviously confussed about a great deal........</STRONG></FONT><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif" size=2><EM>After further searches for unequivocal evidence that <STRONG><U>you do indeed claim that acceleration caused by gravity can be measured internal to the body being accelerated -- free fall</U></STRONG> -- I submit the following (relevant portion shown in (my addition) italics) -</EM></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U>ABSOLUTLY!?</U></STRONG> Paul, I went one step further, it is not a "claim", it is a fact of reality in any and every ref frame you can create!<STRONG> <U>& I NEVER, EVER SUGGERSTED OTHERWISE.....!?</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>you did not get it .....so here it is again......</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>.******************** <FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><EM>I did not <STRONG><U>claim</U></STRONG> that "an accelerometer would indicate a change in velocity due to gravity" ..<STRONG><U><FONT size=4>I stated as a fact</FONT></U></STRONG> that <U><STRONG><FONT size=4>any change in whatever interial state</FONT></STRONG></U> <FONT color=#0000ff>( in GTR/STR Gravity and inertia are one and the same)</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"> <FONT size=4><U><STRONG>you are in, no matter what you take as your interial "ref frame", </STRONG></U><FONT size=2>that</FONT><U><STRONG> for a fact, in-deed and in application that change will and has and always will be detectable as you said "for ever and ever amen"!</STRONG></U>.....</FONT>I have "steped up to the plate" and showed, demonstrated and even cited proof. It is you keep changing ("Making like an eel in a bucket of warm fat") the approach without ever addressing my original post (quantum & laser gyros/accelerometers) or my secondary post to your "mass/spring" diversion. <U><STRONG>I have already shown you clearly and specificly how and exactly why a accelerometor can and will and in fact does measure any change in the intertial state, in a free fall or not</STRONG></U>. The only outstanding issues left to be addressed <U><STRONG>if any are ones of scale</STRONG></U> <U><STRONG>not practical/ actual application(s)</STRONG></U></FONT></FONT></FONT></EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><B></B></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><B>**************************</B></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U>Not only did you miss the emphisis complely, but I did not even word my position that way ...!? </U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>Continuing Now:..... back to the issues......</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>-Gravity and </STRONG></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>inertia are one and the same thing in MS.....!? </STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>-An acceleration is a change by defintion but a change wrt what!?</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>That is why my previous post addressed the grav/inertia and acceleration issues as follows.........</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>Snip.................</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> <P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </FONT></P> <P><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif" color=#0000ff size=2><EM>If the earth remained stationary wrt a distanct star but a car on the earth first sitting at rest then began to accelerate by 1g due to that same distanct star, would that motion be detected by your mass accelerometer in the car or not? </EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif" size=2><EM> </EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><STRONG><U>There are only two posibilites</U></STRONG>: </FONT></EM></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif" size=2><EM> </EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><STRONG><U>1. If not</U>....... </STRONG>then please expalin to everyone what causes the tides and planitary bulges so we can establish the underlying physics for gravity/ inertia.....? </FONT></EM></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif" size=2><EM> </EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><STRONG><U>2. If so</U>......... </STRONG>then the only difference is scale of the effects....between <U><STRONG>a car laying horizonaly on the earths suface and "free falling at 1g toward a distant star</STRONG></U> or <U><STRONG>a bomb hanging horizonaly to a distant star and free falling 1 g to earth's suface....</STRONG></U></FONT></EM></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif" size=2><EM> </EM></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><U><STRONG>The problem with your "mass and spring" is only one of resolution or scale</STRONG></U> that is why I appealed to quantum and laser acclerometers/ gyros. It is not that the effect is not there in relaity it is just that in relaity our mass on a spring is not sinsitive enougph to measure what is taking place regaurdless of GU or HC universe.......</FONT></EM></FONT></FONT></P> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">.........................................</FONT><BR><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><STRONG>Let me futher expand on the thought there with the car in that previous email........hint ....the car is accelerated & to the distant star as the ...Oceans.....tides...are accelerated by/ to the distant moon....via...??....ummmmm......it starts with a "Grav" and ends with a....."ity".</STRONG></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> <P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=1><U><STRONG><FONT size=3>..now jump to point # 2.</FONT> <EM><FONT size=2>If so</FONT></EM></STRONG></U></FONT><FONT size=2><EM><STRONG>.........</STRONG> then the only <U><STRONG>difference is scale of the effects</STRONG></U>....between <U><STRONG>a car laying horizonaly on the earths suface and "free falling at 1g toward a distant star</STRONG></U> or <U><STRONG>a bomb hanging horizonaly to a distant star and free falling 1 g to earth's suface....</STRONG></U></EM></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT size=2> </FONT></P></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><STRONG>If gravity acts on all parts of the accelerometer equally and simoltaniouly then ......come on, the fire works and light bulb should have gone off days ago by now....!?</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>All and any of my post were all addressing the exact same issue in the same way!?</FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff>In my last Posting I decided to exand upon your questions but only so far as to put another nail in and Prove my point and add more highlight to your error. If you can't understand your logical error here then all the math in the world will not prove anything excpect to discrtiact from the issue...<U><STRONG>YOU HAVE A LOGICAL CONTRIDICTION IN YOUR/MS EXPLINATIONS/ UNDERSTANDING/APPLICATIONS</STRONG></U> of Gravity, inertia and "inertial reference frames"....just to name a few...!</FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif" size=2>I will not be diverted by your attempted sleight of hand tricks. <STRONG><U>Point out the error in my closing paragraph</U></STRONG> or forever hold to silence.</FONT></EM></DIV> <P><FONT face="times new roman, new york, times, serif" size=2><EM>Paul D</EM></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>That is what you asked for and that is what i gave you......!?</FONT> <FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>Read it again....</STRONG></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><EM><FONT size=2>"I'm going to be charitable and assume that you still do not grasp what I'm saying about accelerometers........................</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> <P><EM><FONT size=2>Now for the crunch, the bit where our velocity changes due to acceleration by gravity. (Note - from a recent post from Regner, perhaps 'speed' is more appropriate here -- please comment if you think it appropriate. In any event, what I'm trying to convey is that our rate of travel increases). This time, we place our vehicle into elliptical orbit -- around Earth will suffice -- and as we pass apogee, we begin to accelerate. At this moment we place our accelerometer 1 kg mass outside the vehicle with velocities matched and engage our distance and time measuring devices. After we have passed perigee we will have stopped accelerating and begin decelerating. <U><STRONG>At no time from apogee to perigee will the 1 kg mass have fallen behind or overtaken us and this will not change from perigee back to apogee and so on for ever and ever amen.</STRONG></U> Despite acceleration and deceleration due to gravity in an elliptical orbit, <U>our accelerometer will indicate no change in velocity</U><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG><U>.",,</U></STRONG>OK quite simply your wrong ...why? ..Then how exactly does the moon accelerate the ocean tides separate and very disticntive ( in my opinion) from the rest of the mass on the earth it passes over.......<U><STRONG>why, it appears to take the water wrt land and "leave it behind"</STRONG></U> .........ummm ..............Maybe it has somthing to do with "</FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>Hooke's law of elasticity"..!? :-)</FONT></FONT></EM></P> <P><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><U><STRONG><EM>The error in your closing paragraph.... here it is.....</EM></STRONG></U></FONT></P> <P><STRONG><EM><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff>You can't use gravity to create </FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>"Differential Forces" & effects and then use the same causes for thoese same forces to cause the same forces to be "non-differential" (wrt measurable acceleration) all at the same time...!?..I suppose though that is "the micicle of modern scicence"</FONT></FONT></EM></STRONG></P></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><EM>Again class, .....in MS Gravity and inertia are one and the same, and acceleration (& even direction too:-) is <U><STRONG>always and only wrt</STRONG></U> the "almighty" "INERTIAL REFERENCE FRAME".....<U><STRONG>?????</STRONG></U> Does the sun & or moon accelerate the tides or not ?</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT color=#0000ff><EM><FONT size=2><U><STRONG>If not then</STRONG></U> where do the tides come from ?..:-) <U><STRONG>If it does then</STRONG></U> <U>how can</U> <U>you claim that</U> <U>you could not detect or measure an acceleration</U> using a "mass/spring"/ earth v water ( im herby now invoking "<FONT color=#000000><FONT color=#0000ff>Hooke's law of elasticity</FONT></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>"..i think:-)</FONT> of a body in free fall within "inertial ref frames"?</FONT></EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><EM><FONT size=2> </FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><EM>NOW..ummm.. couph.....exactly why do you think that your mass outside your craft would not get left behind again.........?????</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">................................<BR><FONT color=#0000ff>However all of this was a distraction you inserted away from my primar address which as i pointed out so many times was...........</FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> <P><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=3><U><STRONG>"The problem with your "mass and spring" is only one of resolution or scale</STRONG></U> that is why I appealed to quantum and laser acclerometers/ gyros.<STRONG><U> It is not that the effect is not there in relaity it is just that in relaity our mass on a spring is not sinsitive enougph to measure what is taking place regaurdless of GU or HC universe......."</U></STRONG></FONT></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT color=#0000ff>Can you see/appreciate the full extent of your/MS problem(s) now?</FONT></DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">----- Original Message ----<BR>From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx><BR>To: Geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:16:45 AM<BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Acceleration calcs<BR><BR> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> <DIV> Allen D</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After further searches for unequivocal evidence that you do indeed claim that acceleration caused by gravity can be measured internal to the body being accelerated -- free fall -- I submit the following (relevant portion shown in (my addition) italics) -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV> <P>From allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Tue Jan 29 00:00:10 2008</P> <P> </P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> <P></FONT><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I know I was in part piggy backing ..........but for good reason ;-)... my point was that description does not describe the earth's orbit at all because <U>the acceleration rate must change.</U> The calcs we provided were only the average or mean acceleration rate not the constant rate. The earth's orbit demands<FONT size=4> </FONT><FONT color=#808000><FONT color=#000000><EM>changes in acceleration rates and that is what we are looking for and that is what can be measured</EM></FONT> </FONT>and what we should expect to be measured. This is part of my thesis for why acceleration and gravity are not one and the same thing....gyroscopes operate primarily on the gravitational forces within any given gravitational field where acceleration is a change only wrt the ARF. My arguments are pointing to the fact that even though the gyroscope may not be able to detect a translational motion of a body the acceleration rate of that same body and in fact any motion of any body period can and is detected even within the earth's gravitational field.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </FONT> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <P><FONT face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></P> <DIV></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR SIZE=1> Get the name you always wanted with the <A href="http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/taglines/au/y7mail/default/*http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail/?p1=ni&p2=general&p3=tagline&p4=other"; target=_blank rel=nofollow>new y7mail email address</A>. </DIV> <DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><BR></DIV></div></body></html> --0-371253824-1206030545=:50680--