[duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

  • From: "Peter Sullivan" <peter@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:13:11 -0500

Joanie,

You then might run into the other problem with "smart" apostrophes.  DBT
apparently manages these better when reading the Word file instead of the
clipboard.

Another approach you might explore is using Word's Autoformat feature,
available in the Format menu.  It's supposed to help clean up "illogical"
style applications and other formatting in a document.  I've only done a
very little bit of testing, but did find that it produces a document that
should be well-managed by DBT.

- Peter 

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Joanmarie Diggs
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 12:04 PM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

Removing *all* styles is easy:  Select all the text in the Word document,
copy it, and then paste it into a new Duxbury print document. <smile> I do
this when a Word document is so overly formatted (or illogically formatted)
that's it's easier to start from scratch.

But I like the idea of being able to pick and choose on the fly.

Take care.
Joanie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:37 AM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
> 
> Micheal,
> 
> I've put this on file too, with reference #1588, the full text of 
> which is
> this:
> 
> The simplest useful approach would actual strip only linear styles, 
> presumably leaving [l] at the start or end of each such paragraph.
> A more useful approach would prompt the user to remove linear, 
> nestable, or both kinds of styles.
> Finally, we could present a full dialog, with all
> *referenced* styles (even
> undefined ones) listed.  The user could "Select All", "Select None", 
> "Select Linear", "Select Nestable", or select/deselect individual 
> entries before clicking "Remove Styles". It might be nice also to have 
> a place to specify what is done in place of where linear styles have 
> been removed (e.g. [p] versus [l]).
> 
> You're right to suggest that we won't be getting to that third 
> approach in this beta round.  New UI that involves more than a string 
> or two is something that we consider only in extreme cases, because it 
> is difficult for our localizers to keep pace when we may be shipping 
> soon.
> 
> The first suggestion is something that we will have to reflect upon.  
> Here too, we're struggling with defects in existing features at the 
> moment, so it isn't possible for me to predict what new ones will make 
> it into the software.
> 
> But I do appreciate you bringing this to my attention.
> 
> - Peter
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael Surato
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:47 AM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
> 
> I heartily concur. In the long run, the flexibility to remove any type 
> of style would be a great feature. If that is not possible in this 
> release, then I would at least be satisfied with removing the linear 
> styles.
> 
> +-------------------------------------------+
> |            Michael Surato                 |
> |      Resource Center for Persons          |
> |           with Disabilities               |
> |      Michigan State University            |
> |            120 Bessey Hall                |
> |        East Lansing, MI 48824             |
> | Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
> +-------------------------------------------+
>   
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
>       From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don Breda
>       Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:41 AM
>       To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>       
>       
>       Hi Peter.
>       
>       I have had customers request a feature to remove all styles in a 
> document. Frankly I think if you were to press them on it y you would 
> realize they probably mean all linear styles but if all the options 
> were present and selectable as you suggest (ie. remove linear, nested, 
> or both or
> (all) is probably more accurate then customers could choose and what 
> with the undo feature present no choice would be catestroaphic.
>       
>       Don
>       
>       On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:46:27 -0500, Peter Sullivan wrote:
>       
>       >Michael,
>       >
>       >There is no such option.
>       >
>       >However, you can, perhaps, effect something of the same thing if
you 
> only
>       >mean to remove linear stlyes -- what most people call paragraph 
> styles.
>       >
>       >Try this:
>       >- Choose Edit, Select All to highlight the whole document.
>       >- Choose Layout, Join Styles to put all the text into one set of 
> style tags.
>       >- Choose Edit, View Codes (if necessary) to put the document in 
> coded view.
>       >- Push Control-Home to move to the beginning of the document.
>       >- Now use the Arrow keys and backspace or delete to remove the 
> document's
>       >only start style tag for a linear style. The corresponding end
style 
> key
>       >should be removed automatically.
>       >
>       >Nestable styles -- what most people call character styles -- will 
> remain
>       >even after this procedure.
>       >
>       >It takes a bit more skill that what you suggest, so we'll keep your

> request
>       >in mind. And I'm not sure that it does all you want either.
> Will you also
>       >want to clear nestable styles? If you had your ideal feature 
> implemented,
>       >would it allow you to strip only linear or only nestable or both 
> kinds of
>       >styles? Would it present a list of styles referenced in the
document 
> for
>       >you to select those you want cleared?
>       >
>       >- Peter 
>       >
>       >-----Original Message-----
>       >From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>       >Behalf Of Michael Surato
>       >Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 4:29 PM
>       >To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>       >
>       >Along these same lines, is there an option to remove all styles
from 
> the
>       >document? This would be similar to Word's "clear formatting"
>       >instruction. Alternatively, (perhaps a better option) would be to 
> have the
>       >"Word Importer..." dialog under global settings to have the option 
> to ignore
>       >Word styles. We are often looking to not use any styles but have 
> Word files
>       >as a source and this would be a good option for us.
>       >
>       >+-------------------------------------------+
>       >| Michael Surato |
>       >| Resource Center for Persons |
>       >| with Disabilities |
>       >| Michigan State University |
>       >| 120 Bessey Hall |
>       >| East Lansing, MI 48824 |
>       >| Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
>       >+-------------------------------------------+ 
>       > 
>       >
>       >> -----Original Message-----
>       >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie
Diggs
>       >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:08 PM
>       >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>       >> 
>       >> Hmmmm.... Now I'm pondering. :)
>       >> 
>       >> The case you mention is not quite what I had in mind. If a user 
> knows
>       >> how to enter the style to find as a style tag, what is the 
> likelihood
>       >> that he/she will then turn around enter the replacement style as 
> plain
>       >> text?
>       >> Granted, I've seen stranger user behavior, but my gut is telling 
> me
>       >> that this scenario isn't going to happen all that often. So **for
> 
>       >> this
>       >> scenario** I'd say clean up the error message.
>       >> 
>       >> The scenario I'm envisioning is a bit different. What if you 
>       >> imported a document from Word and, due to the default formatting 
> in
>       >> Word, wound up with text in Duxbury that was formatted with the
>       >> paragraph style, but really should be formatted as text separated

> by a
>       >> new line? In that instance, you could replace the paragraph style
> 
>       >> with the code [l] or [<]. So the user gets into the find/replace
>       >> dialog, manually enters the style tag, manually enters the code, 
> and
>       >> then sees the replace stylename checkbox and has to decide
whether 
> or
>       >> not to check it. A reasonable thing, I think, for the user to
> 
>       >> conclude is that he/she is indeed replacing a stylename:
>       >> The stylename <para.> is being replaced with the code [l]. 
>       >> That might not be what the intent of that checkbox is, but the 
> user
>       >> will check it all the same. :) Even if you clean up the error
> 
>       >> message, our hypothetical user is not going to understand what
the
>       >> problem is. So in this case I'd vote for either option 1 (just do

> the
>       >> replace) or option 2 (are you sure you want to replace your style

> with
>       >> this code).
>       >> 
>       >> --Joanie
>       >> 
>       >> -----Original Message-----
>       >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
>       >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:19 PM
>       >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>       >> 
>       >> Joanie,
>       >> 
>       >> I've been pondering this a bit.
>       >> 
>       >> The behavior that you're now seeing -- apart from the ugliness of

> the
>       >> error message -- is at least somewhat intentional.
>       >> 
>       >> What I wonder is, when a user types in a "style name to find"
> 
>       >> as a style tag, and a "style name with which to replace it" 
>       >> as plain text, then checks "replace stylename", just what is the
>       >> intent? Is the user intending to replace style tags in the 
> document
>       >> with plain text? With "replace stylename"
>       >> checked, that's never what DBT will do.
>       >> 
>       >> So we deliberately stopped short of handling the "mixed entry 
> method"
>       >> case that you cite, for fear that we'd otherwise be doing 
> something
>       >> that the user wasn't expecting. Perhaps with Undo available, 
> that's
>       >> not such a big deal.
>       >> 
>       >> Anyhow, I have some choices for you (and others who may care to
>       >> express an opinion). Shall we:
>       >> 1. Just go ahead and replace the one style with the other,
despite
>       >> the odd data entry,
>       >> 2. Warn the user about the apparent inconsistency, and go ahead 
> with
>       >> the replacement if the user confirms it, or
>       >> 3. Just clean up the error message?
>       >> 
>       >> - Peter
>       >> 
>       >> -----Original Message-----
>       >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie
Diggs
>       >> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:23 PM
>       >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> Subject: [duxhelp] Finding and replacing styles
>       >> 
>       >> Hi all. With respect to this fix:
>       >> ---
>       >> DBT's Find and Replace dialogs are more flexible about 
> understanding a
>       >> user's intent to search for or replace styles. It is now possible

> to
>       >> use Control-< to enter the style as a tag and check the 
> "Find/Replace
>       >> style"
>       >> checkbox.
>       >> ---
>       >> If you: 
>       >> 1. manually insert a style with Control-< 2. put a non-style in 
> the
>       >> replace with edit box 3. check the replace stylename checkbox
>       >> 
>       >> You still get the error dialog. The error message isn't very 
> pretty
>       >> either.
>       >> Here is the screen shot of the dialog that appeared when I tried 
> to
>       >> replace the para style with the linefeed code -- both of which 
> were
>       >> manually entered.
>       >> 
>       >> 
>       >> 
>       >> And for the benefit of screen reader users, here is the text 
> (which I
>       >> would read with all punctuation turned on -- also note the 
>       >> non-printing character that appears after each open quotation
> -- JAWS 
>       >> says it's "character 28")
>       >> 
>       >> There is no style defined with the name "es~para.. 
> Are you sure
> you 
>       >> want to replace all occurrences of the style "es~para. with "l?
>       >> 
>       >> Take care.
>       >> Joanie
>       >> 
>       >> 
>       >> 
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