[duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
- To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:24:02 -0500
This is exactly our experience. Aside from the licensing issues that we
have had with our client/server environment, this quandary is our
biggest pain point with Duxbury.
+-------------------------------------------+
| Michael Surato |
| Resource Center for Persons |
| with Disabilities |
| Michigan State University |
| 120 Bessey Hall |
| East Lansing, MI 48824 |
| Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
+-------------------------------------------+
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 12:13 PM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>
> Joanie,
>
> You then might run into the other problem with "smart"
> apostrophes. DBT apparently manages these better when
> reading the Word file instead of the clipboard.
>
> Another approach you might explore is using Word's Autoformat
> feature, available in the Format menu. It's supposed to help
> clean up "illogical"
> style applications and other formatting in a document. I've
> only done a very little bit of testing, but did find that it
> produces a document that should be well-managed by DBT.
>
> - Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie Diggs
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 12:04 PM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>
> Removing *all* styles is easy: Select all the text in the
> Word document, copy it, and then paste it into a new Duxbury
> print document. <smile> I do this when a Word document is so
> overly formatted (or illogically formatted) that's it's
> easier to start from scratch.
>
> But I like the idea of being able to pick and choose on the fly.
>
> Take care.
> Joanie
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:37 AM
> > To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
> >
> > Micheal,
> >
> > I've put this on file too, with reference #1588, the full text of
> > which is
> > this:
> >
> > The simplest useful approach would actual strip only linear styles,
> > presumably leaving [l] at the start or end of each such paragraph.
> > A more useful approach would prompt the user to remove linear,
> > nestable, or both kinds of styles.
> > Finally, we could present a full dialog, with all
> > *referenced* styles (even
> > undefined ones) listed. The user could "Select All",
> "Select None",
> > "Select Linear", "Select Nestable", or select/deselect individual
> > entries before clicking "Remove Styles". It might be nice
> also to have
> > a place to specify what is done in place of where linear
> styles have
> > been removed (e.g. [p] versus [l]).
> >
> > You're right to suggest that we won't be getting to that third
> > approach in this beta round. New UI that involves more
> than a string
> > or two is something that we consider only in extreme cases,
> because it
> > is difficult for our localizers to keep pace when we may be
> shipping
> > soon.
> >
> > The first suggestion is something that we will have to
> reflect upon.
> > Here too, we're struggling with defects in existing features at the
> > moment, so it isn't possible for me to predict what new
> ones will make
> > it into the software.
> >
> > But I do appreciate you bringing this to my attention.
> >
> > - Peter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael Surato
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:47 AM
> > To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
> >
> > I heartily concur. In the long run, the flexibility to
> remove any type
> > of style would be a great feature. If that is not possible in this
> > release, then I would at least be satisfied with removing
> the linear
> > styles.
> >
> > +-------------------------------------------+
> > | Michael Surato |
> > | Resource Center for Persons |
> > | with Disabilities |
> > | Michigan State University |
> > | 120 Bessey Hall |
> > | East Lansing, MI 48824 |
> > | Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
> > +-------------------------------------------+
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don Breda
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:41 AM
> > To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
> >
> >
> > Hi Peter.
> >
> > I have had customers request a feature to remove all
> styles in a
> > document. Frankly I think if you were to press them on it y
> you would
> > realize they probably mean all linear styles but if all the options
> > were present and selectable as you suggest (ie. remove
> linear, nested,
> > or both or
> > (all) is probably more accurate then customers could choose
> and what
> > with the undo feature present no choice would be catestroaphic.
> >
> > Don
> >
> > On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:46:27 -0500, Peter Sullivan wrote:
> >
> > >Michael,
> > >
> > >There is no such option.
> > >
> > >However, you can, perhaps, effect something of the
> same thing if
> you
> > only
> > >mean to remove linear stlyes -- what most people call
> paragraph
> > styles.
> > >
> > >Try this:
> > >- Choose Edit, Select All to highlight the whole document.
> > >- Choose Layout, Join Styles to put all the text into
> one set of
> > style tags.
> > >- Choose Edit, View Codes (if necessary) to put the
> document in
> > coded view.
> > >- Push Control-Home to move to the beginning of the document.
> > >- Now use the Arrow keys and backspace or delete to remove the
> > document's
> > >only start style tag for a linear style. The corresponding end
> style
> > key
> > >should be removed automatically.
> > >
> > >Nestable styles -- what most people call character
> styles -- will
> > remain
> > >even after this procedure.
> > >
> > >It takes a bit more skill that what you suggest, so
> we'll keep your
>
> > request
> > >in mind. And I'm not sure that it does all you want either.
> > Will you also
> > >want to clear nestable styles? If you had your ideal feature
> > implemented,
> > >would it allow you to strip only linear or only
> nestable or both
> > kinds of
> > >styles? Would it present a list of styles referenced in the
> document
> > for
> > >you to select those you want cleared?
> > >
> > >- Peter
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> > >Behalf Of Michael Surato
> > >Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 4:29 PM
> > >To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
> > >
> > >Along these same lines, is there an option to remove all styles
> from
> > the
> > >document? This would be similar to Word's "clear formatting"
> > >instruction. Alternatively, (perhaps a better option)
> would be to
> > have the
> > >"Word Importer..." dialog under global settings to
> have the option
> > to ignore
> > >Word styles. We are often looking to not use any
> styles but have
> > Word files
> > >as a source and this would be a good option for us.
> > >
> > >+-------------------------------------------+
> > >| Michael Surato |
> > >| Resource Center for Persons |
> > >| with Disabilities |
> > >| Michigan State University |
> > >| 120 Bessey Hall |
> > >| East Lansing, MI 48824 |
> > >| Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
> > >+-------------------------------------------+
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie
> Diggs
> > >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:08 PM
> > >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
> > >>
> > >> Hmmmm.... Now I'm pondering. :)
> > >>
> > >> The case you mention is not quite what I had in
> mind. If a user
> > knows
> > >> how to enter the style to find as a style tag, what is the
> > likelihood
> > >> that he/she will then turn around enter the
> replacement style as
> > plain
> > >> text?
> > >> Granted, I've seen stranger user behavior, but my
> gut is telling
> > me
> > >> that this scenario isn't going to happen all that
> often. So **for
> >
> > >> this
> > >> scenario** I'd say clean up the error message.
> > >>
> > >> The scenario I'm envisioning is a bit different. What if you
> > >> imported a document from Word and, due to the
> default formatting
> > in
> > >> Word, wound up with text in Duxbury that was
> formatted with the
> > >> paragraph style, but really should be formatted as
> text separated
>
> > by a
> > >> new line? In that instance, you could replace the
> paragraph style
> >
> > >> with the code [l] or [<]. So the user gets into the
> find/replace
> > >> dialog, manually enters the style tag, manually
> enters the code,
> > and
> > >> then sees the replace stylename checkbox and has to decide
> whether
> > or
> > >> not to check it. A reasonable thing, I think, for the user to
> >
> > >> conclude is that he/she is indeed replacing a stylename:
> > >> The stylename <para.> is being replaced with the code [l].
> > >> That might not be what the intent of that checkbox
> is, but the
> > user
> > >> will check it all the same. :) Even if you clean up the error
> >
> > >> message, our hypothetical user is not going to
> understand what
> the
> > >> problem is. So in this case I'd vote for either
> option 1 (just do
>
> > the
> > >> replace) or option 2 (are you sure you want to
> replace your style
>
> > with
> > >> this code).
> > >>
> > >> --Joanie
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Peter Sullivan
> > >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:19 PM
> > >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
> > >>
> > >> Joanie,
> > >>
> > >> I've been pondering this a bit.
> > >>
> > >> The behavior that you're now seeing -- apart from
> the ugliness of
>
> > the
> > >> error message -- is at least somewhat intentional.
> > >>
> > >> What I wonder is, when a user types in a "style name to find"
> >
> > >> as a style tag, and a "style name with which to replace it"
> > >> as plain text, then checks "replace stylename", just
> what is the
> > >> intent? Is the user intending to replace style tags in the
> > document
> > >> with plain text? With "replace stylename"
> > >> checked, that's never what DBT will do.
> > >>
> > >> So we deliberately stopped short of handling the
> "mixed entry
> > method"
> > >> case that you cite, for fear that we'd otherwise be doing
> > something
> > >> that the user wasn't expecting. Perhaps with Undo available,
> > that's
> > >> not such a big deal.
> > >>
> > >> Anyhow, I have some choices for you (and others who
> may care to
> > >> express an opinion). Shall we:
> > >> 1. Just go ahead and replace the one style with the other,
> despite
> > >> the odd data entry,
> > >> 2. Warn the user about the apparent inconsistency,
> and go ahead
> > with
> > >> the replacement if the user confirms it, or
> > >> 3. Just clean up the error message?
> > >>
> > >> - Peter
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie
> Diggs
> > >> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:23 PM
> > >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> Subject: [duxhelp] Finding and replacing styles
> > >>
> > >> Hi all. With respect to this fix:
> > >> ---
> > >> DBT's Find and Replace dialogs are more flexible about
> > understanding a
> > >> user's intent to search for or replace styles. It is
> now possible
>
> > to
> > >> use Control-< to enter the style as a tag and check the
> > "Find/Replace
> > >> style"
> > >> checkbox.
> > >> ---
> > >> If you:
> > >> 1. manually insert a style with Control-< 2. put a
> non-style in
> > the
> > >> replace with edit box 3. check the replace stylename checkbox
> > >>
> > >> You still get the error dialog. The error message isn't very
> > pretty
> > >> either.
> > >> Here is the screen shot of the dialog that appeared
> when I tried
> > to
> > >> replace the para style with the linefeed code --
> both of which
> > were
> > >> manually entered.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> And for the benefit of screen reader users, here is the text
> > (which I
> > >> would read with all punctuation turned on -- also note the
> > >> non-printing character that appears after each open quotation
> > -- JAWS
> > >> says it's "character 28")
> > >>
> > >> There is no style defined with the name "es~para..
> > Are you sure
> > you
> > >> want to replace all occurrences of the style
> "es~para. with "l?
> > >>
> > >> Take care.
> > >> Joanie
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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