[duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

  • From: "Joanmarie Diggs" <joanmarie.diggs@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:04:28 -0500

Removing *all* styles is easy:  Select all the text in the Word document,
copy it, and then paste it into a new Duxbury print document. <smile> I do
this when a Word document is so overly formatted (or illogically formatted)
that's it's easier to start from scratch.

But I like the idea of being able to pick and choose on the fly.

Take care.
Joanie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 11:37 AM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
> 
> Micheal,
> 
> I've put this on file too, with reference #1588, the full 
> text of which is
> this:
> 
> The simplest useful approach would actual strip only linear styles,
> presumably leaving [l] at the start or end of each such paragraph.
> A more useful approach would prompt the user to remove 
> linear, nestable, or
> both kinds of styles.
> Finally, we could present a full dialog, with all 
> *referenced* styles (even
> undefined ones) listed.  The user could "Select All", "Select 
> None", "Select
> Linear", "Select Nestable", or select/deselect individual 
> entries before
> clicking "Remove Styles". It might be nice also to have a 
> place to specify
> what is done in place of where linear styles have been 
> removed (e.g. [p]
> versus [l]).
> 
> You're right to suggest that we won't be getting to that 
> third approach in
> this beta round.  New UI that involves more than a string or two is
> something that we consider only in extreme cases, because it 
> is difficult
> for our localizers to keep pace when we may be shipping soon.
> 
> The first suggestion is something that we will have to 
> reflect upon.  Here
> too, we're struggling with defects in existing features at 
> the moment, so it
> isn't possible for me to predict what new ones will make it into the
> software.
> 
> But I do appreciate you bringing this to my attention.
> 
> - Peter 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Michael Surato
> Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:47 AM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
> 
> I heartily concur. In the long run, the flexibility to remove 
> any type of
> style would be a great feature. If that is not possible in 
> this release,
> then I would at least be satisfied with removing the linear styles.
> 
> +-------------------------------------------+
> |            Michael Surato                 |
> |      Resource Center for Persons          |
> |           with Disabilities               |
> |      Michigan State University            |
> |            120 Bessey Hall                |
> |        East Lansing, MI 48824             |
> | Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
> +-------------------------------------------+
>   
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
>       From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don Breda
>       Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:41 AM
>       To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>       
>       
>       Hi Peter.
>       
>       I have had customers request a feature to remove all styles in a
> document. Frankly I think if you were to press them on it y you would
> realize they probably mean all linear styles but if all the 
> options were
> present and selectable as you suggest (ie. remove linear, 
> nested, or both or
> (all) is probably more accurate then customers could choose 
> and what with
> the undo feature present no choice would be catestroaphic.
>       
>       Don
>       
>       On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:46:27 -0500, Peter Sullivan wrote:
>       
>       >Michael,
>       >
>       >There is no such option.
>       >
>       >However, you can, perhaps, effect something of the 
> same thing if
> you only
>       >mean to remove linear stlyes -- what most people call paragraph
> styles.
>       >
>       >Try this:
>       >- Choose Edit, Select All to highlight the whole document.
>       >- Choose Layout, Join Styles to put all the text into 
> one set of
> style tags.
>       >- Choose Edit, View Codes (if necessary) to put the document in
> coded view.
>       >- Push Control-Home to move to the beginning of the document.
>       >- Now use the Arrow keys and backspace or delete to remove the
> document's
>       >only start style tag for a linear style. The corresponding end
> style key
>       >should be removed automatically.
>       >
>       >Nestable styles -- what most people call character 
> styles -- will
> remain
>       >even after this procedure.
>       >
>       >It takes a bit more skill that what you suggest, so 
> we'll keep your
> request
>       >in mind. And I'm not sure that it does all you want either.
> Will you also
>       >want to clear nestable styles? If you had your ideal feature
> implemented,
>       >would it allow you to strip only linear or only 
> nestable or both
> kinds of
>       >styles? Would it present a list of styles referenced in the
> document for
>       >you to select those you want cleared?
>       >
>       >- Peter 
>       >
>       >-----Original Message-----
>       >From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>       >Behalf Of Michael Surato
>       >Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 4:29 PM
>       >To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>       >
>       >Along these same lines, is there an option to remove all styles
> from the
>       >document? This would be similar to Word's "clear formatting"
>       >instruction. Alternatively, (perhaps a better option) 
> would be to
> have the
>       >"Word Importer..." dialog under global settings to 
> have the option
> to ignore
>       >Word styles. We are often looking to not use any 
> styles but have
> Word files
>       >as a source and this would be a good option for us.
>       >
>       >+-------------------------------------------+
>       >| Michael Surato |
>       >| Resource Center for Persons |
>       >| with Disabilities |
>       >| Michigan State University |
>       >| 120 Bessey Hall |
>       >| East Lansing, MI 48824 |
>       >| Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
>       >+-------------------------------------------+ 
>       > 
>       >
>       >> -----Original Message-----
>       >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie
> Diggs
>       >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:08 PM
>       >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>       >> 
>       >> Hmmmm.... Now I'm pondering. :)
>       >> 
>       >> The case you mention is not quite what I had in 
> mind. If a user
> knows 
>       >> how to enter the style to find as a style tag, what is the
> likelihood 
>       >> that he/she will then turn around enter the 
> replacement style as
> plain 
>       >> text?
>       >> Granted, I've seen stranger user behavior, but my 
> gut is telling
> me 
>       >> that this scenario isn't going to happen all that 
> often. So **for
> 
>       >> this
>       >> scenario** I'd say clean up the error message.
>       >> 
>       >> The scenario I'm envisioning is a bit different. What if you 
>       >> imported a document from Word and, due to the 
> default formatting
> in 
>       >> Word, wound up with text in Duxbury that was 
> formatted with the 
>       >> paragraph style, but really should be formatted as 
> text separated
> by a 
>       >> new line? In that instance, you could replace the 
> paragraph style
> 
>       >> with the code [l] or [<]. So the user gets into the 
> find/replace 
>       >> dialog, manually enters the style tag, manually 
> enters the code,
> and 
>       >> then sees the replace stylename checkbox and has to decide
> whether or 
>       >> not to check it. A reasonable thing, I think, for the user to
> 
>       >> conclude is that he/she is indeed replacing a stylename:
>       >> The stylename <para.> is being replaced with the code [l]. 
>       >> That might not be what the intent of that checkbox 
> is, but the
> user 
>       >> will check it all the same. :) Even if you clean up the error
> 
>       >> message, our hypothetical user is not going to 
> understand what
> the 
>       >> problem is. So in this case I'd vote for either 
> option 1 (just do
> the 
>       >> replace) or option 2 (are you sure you want to 
> replace your style
> with 
>       >> this code).
>       >> 
>       >> --Joanie
>       >> 
>       >> -----Original Message-----
>       >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Peter Sullivan
>       >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:19 PM
>       >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>       >> 
>       >> Joanie,
>       >> 
>       >> I've been pondering this a bit.
>       >> 
>       >> The behavior that you're now seeing -- apart from 
> the ugliness of
> the 
>       >> error message -- is at least somewhat intentional.
>       >> 
>       >> What I wonder is, when a user types in a "style name to find"
> 
>       >> as a style tag, and a "style name with which to replace it" 
>       >> as plain text, then checks "replace stylename", just 
> what is the 
>       >> intent? Is the user intending to replace style tags in the
> document 
>       >> with plain text? With "replace stylename"
>       >> checked, that's never what DBT will do.
>       >> 
>       >> So we deliberately stopped short of handling the "mixed entry
> method" 
>       >> case that you cite, for fear that we'd otherwise be doing
> something 
>       >> that the user wasn't expecting. Perhaps with Undo available,
> that's 
>       >> not such a big deal.
>       >> 
>       >> Anyhow, I have some choices for you (and others who 
> may care to 
>       >> express an opinion). Shall we:
>       >> 1. Just go ahead and replace the one style with the other,
> despite 
>       >> the odd data entry,
>       >> 2. Warn the user about the apparent inconsistency, 
> and go ahead
> with 
>       >> the replacement if the user confirms it, or
>       >> 3. Just clean up the error message?
>       >> 
>       >> - Peter
>       >> 
>       >> -----Original Message-----
>       >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie
> Diggs
>       >> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:23 PM
>       >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> Subject: [duxhelp] Finding and replacing styles
>       >> 
>       >> Hi all. With respect to this fix:
>       >> ---
>       >> DBT's Find and Replace dialogs are more flexible about
> understanding a 
>       >> user's intent to search for or replace styles. It is 
> now possible
> to 
>       >> use Control-< to enter the style as a tag and check the
> "Find/Replace 
>       >> style"
>       >> checkbox.
>       >> ---
>       >> If you: 
>       >> 1. manually insert a style with Control-< 2. put a 
> non-style in
> the 
>       >> replace with edit box 3. check the replace stylename checkbox
>       >> 
>       >> You still get the error dialog. The error message isn't very
> pretty 
>       >> either.
>       >> Here is the screen shot of the dialog that appeared 
> when I tried
> to 
>       >> replace the para style with the linefeed code -- 
> both of which
> were 
>       >> manually entered.
>       >> 
>       >> 
>       >> 
>       >> And for the benefit of screen reader users, here is the text
> (which I 
>       >> would read with all punctuation turned on -- also note the 
>       >> non-printing character that appears after each open quotation
> -- JAWS 
>       >> says it's "character 28")
>       >> 
>       >> There is no style defined with the name "es~para.. 
> Are you sure
> you 
>       >> want to replace all occurrences of the style 
> "es~para. with "l?
>       >> 
>       >> Take care.
>       >> Joanie
>       >> 
>       >> 
>       >> 
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