[duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

  • From: "Peter Sullivan" <peter@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 17:41:55 -0500

George,

I'll try to talk this through with Pat, though it'll most likely be after
the end of this beta cycle.

- Peter 

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of George Bell
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:20 PM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

Peter

> For simple document edits that delete a half a style tag
pair, we do
> automatically clean up the other half.  Several people had
asked us to do
> that.  Now we've been asked to undo it. 

Not exactly, Peter.  Utopia would be an option to delete just the one, or
the pair.

If you have 20 minutes to spare, talk to Pat Larkin.  Aside from Undo/Redo,
manipulating Codes in Word imported files is his next biggest gripe.

George.

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
Sent: 25 March 2006 22:01
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

Joanie,

Thanks.  With regard to this:

> Although this raises another issue -- one I've wondered
about before 
> this cycle.  If you delete a style tag within the
document, the other 
> half of the pair gets automatically deleted.  But if you
cause a style 
> tag to become deleted by replacing it with nothing or a
code, what, if 
> anything, should happen to the other half of the pair?
> Personally, leaving it as is with the above functionality
works very 
> nicely for me.  And I'm not suggesting a change; merely
wondering
> out-loud:  Would the average user expect something else to
occur?

I don't know what the average user would expect.

For simple document edits that delete a half a style tag pair, we do
automatically clean up the other half.  Several people had asked us to do
that.  Now we've been asked to undo it.

I'm inclined to leave everything as-is.  Editing will try to maintain pairs
of style tags.  However, you can break the pairing by inserting style tags
directly (using F5 to choose the es or ee code, or by using Control-[ or
Control-< to type a style tag code or style name directly).  You can also
break the pairing through search and replace.  Of course, you can use these
same methods to fix the pairing.

- Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie Diggs
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:09 PM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

Right.

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:06 PM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

Joanie,

In other words, ignore the checkmark on "Replace stylename", right?

- Peter 

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie Diggs
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 4:00 PM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

I was thinking it would be pretty literal.  If the item to be found, is
<para.> then replace <para.>; if the item to be found is instead </para.>
then replace </para.>

So in the case I mentioned, what I would do is a two-step find and replace:

1. Replace all instances of the ending style tag </para.> with [l] 2.
Replace all instances of the starting style tag with nothing (thus deleting
them)

Although this raises another issue -- one I've wondered about before this
cycle.  If you delete a style tag within the document, the other half of the
pair gets automatically deleted.  But if you cause a style tag to become
deleted by replacing it with nothing or a code, what, if anything, should
happen to the other half of the pair?  Personally, leaving it as is with the
above functionality works very nicely for me.  And I'm not suggesting a
change; merely wondering out-loud:  Would the average user expect something
else to occur?

--Joanie

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 3:43 PM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

Joanie,

Let's consider the case you mention.  To do what the user intends, would we
replace the style start tags with the code, the style end tags with the
code, or both?

- Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie Diggs
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:08 PM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

Hmmmm.... Now I'm pondering. :)

The case you mention is not quite what I had in mind.  If a user knows how
to enter the style to find as a style tag, what is the likelihood that
he/she will then turn around enter the replacement style as plain text?
Granted, I've seen stranger user behavior, but my gut is telling me that
this scenario isn't going to happen all that often.  So **for this
scenario** I'd say clean up the error message.

The scenario I'm envisioning is  a bit different.  What if you imported a
document from Word and, due to the default formatting in Word, wound up with
text in Duxbury that was formatted with the paragraph style, but really
should be formatted as text separated by a new line?  In that instance, you
could replace the paragraph style with the code [l] or [<].  So the user
gets into the find/replace dialog, manually enters the style tag, manually
enters the code, and then sees the replace stylename checkbox and has to
decide whether or not to check it.  A reasonable thing, I think, for the
user to conclude is that he/she is indeed replacing a stylename:  The
stylename <para.> is being replaced with the code [l].  That might not be
what the intent of that checkbox is, but the user will check it all the
same. :)  Even if you clean up the error message, our hypothetical user is
not going to understand what the problem is.  So in this case I'd vote for
either option 1 (just do the replace) or option 2 (are you sure you want to
replace your style with this code).

--Joanie

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:19 PM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

Joanie,

I've been pondering this a bit.

The behavior that you're now seeing -- apart from the ugliness of the error
message -- is at least somewhat intentional.

What I wonder is, when a user types in a "style name to find" as a style
tag, and a "style name with which to replace it" as plain text, then checks
"replace stylename", just what is the intent?  Is the user intending to
replace style tags in the document with plain text?  With "replace
stylename" checked, that's never what DBT will do.

So we deliberately stopped short of handling the "mixed entry method" case
that you cite, for fear that we'd otherwise be doing something that the user
wasn't expecting.
Perhaps with Undo available, that's not such a big deal.

Anyhow, I have some choices for you (and others who may care to express an
opinion).  Shall we:
  1. Just go ahead and replace the one style with the other, despite the odd
data entry,
  2. Warn the user about the apparent inconsistency, and go ahead with the
replacement if the user confirms it, or
  3. Just clean up the error message?

- Peter 

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie Diggs
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:23 PM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Finding and replacing styles

Hi all.  With respect to this fix:
---
DBT's Find and Replace dialogs are more flexible about understanding a
user's intent to search for or replace styles. It is now possible to use
Control-< to enter the style as a tag and check the "Find/Replace style"
checkbox.
---
If you: 
1. manually insert a style with Control-< 2. put a non-style in the replace
with edit box 3. check the replace stylename checkbox
 
You still get the error dialog.  The error message isn't very pretty either.
Here is the screen shot of the dialog that appeared when I tried to replace
the para style with the linefeed code -- both of which were manually
entered.
 

 
And for the benefit of screen reader users, here is the text (which I would
read with all punctuation turned on -- also note the non-printing character
that appears after each open quotation -- JAWS says it's "character 28")
 
There is no style defined with the name "es~para..  Are you sure you want
to replace all occurrences of the style "es~para. with "l? 
 
Take care.
Joanie
 


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