[duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

  • From: "Peter Sullivan" <peter@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:37:26 -0500

Micheal,

I've put this on file too, with reference #1588, the full text of which is
this:

The simplest useful approach would actual strip only linear styles,
presumably leaving [l] at the start or end of each such paragraph.
A more useful approach would prompt the user to remove linear, nestable, or
both kinds of styles.
Finally, we could present a full dialog, with all *referenced* styles (even
undefined ones) listed.  The user could "Select All", "Select None", "Select
Linear", "Select Nestable", or select/deselect individual entries before
clicking "Remove Styles". It might be nice also to have a place to specify
what is done in place of where linear styles have been removed (e.g. [p]
versus [l]).

You're right to suggest that we won't be getting to that third approach in
this beta round.  New UI that involves more than a string or two is
something that we consider only in extreme cases, because it is difficult
for our localizers to keep pace when we may be shipping soon.

The first suggestion is something that we will have to reflect upon.  Here
too, we're struggling with defects in existing features at the moment, so it
isn't possible for me to predict what new ones will make it into the
software.

But I do appreciate you bringing this to my attention.

- Peter 

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Michael Surato
Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:47 AM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

I heartily concur. In the long run, the flexibility to remove any type of
style would be a great feature. If that is not possible in this release,
then I would at least be satisfied with removing the linear styles.

+-------------------------------------------+
|            Michael Surato                 |
|      Resource Center for Persons          |
|           with Disabilities               |
|      Michigan State University            |
|            120 Bessey Hall                |
|        East Lansing, MI 48824             |
| Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
+-------------------------------------------+
  

 


________________________________

        From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don Breda
        Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:41 AM
        To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
        
        
        Hi Peter.
        
        I have had customers request a feature to remove all styles in a
document. Frankly I think if you were to press them on it y you would
realize they probably mean all linear styles but if all the options were
present and selectable as you suggest (ie. remove linear, nested, or both or
(all) is probably more accurate then customers could choose and what with
the undo feature present no choice would be catestroaphic.
        
        Don
        
        On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:46:27 -0500, Peter Sullivan wrote:
        
        >Michael,
        >
        >There is no such option.
        >
        >However, you can, perhaps, effect something of the same thing if
you only
        >mean to remove linear stlyes -- what most people call paragraph
styles.
        >
        >Try this:
        >- Choose Edit, Select All to highlight the whole document.
        >- Choose Layout, Join Styles to put all the text into one set of
style tags.
        >- Choose Edit, View Codes (if necessary) to put the document in
coded view.
        >- Push Control-Home to move to the beginning of the document.
        >- Now use the Arrow keys and backspace or delete to remove the
document's
        >only start style tag for a linear style. The corresponding end
style key
        >should be removed automatically.
        >
        >Nestable styles -- what most people call character styles -- will
remain
        >even after this procedure.
        >
        >It takes a bit more skill that what you suggest, so we'll keep your
request
        >in mind. And I'm not sure that it does all you want either.
Will you also
        >want to clear nestable styles? If you had your ideal feature
implemented,
        >would it allow you to strip only linear or only nestable or both
kinds of
        >styles? Would it present a list of styles referenced in the
document for
        >you to select those you want cleared?
        >
        >- Peter 
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
        >Behalf Of Michael Surato
        >Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 4:29 PM
        >To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        >Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
        >
        >Along these same lines, is there an option to remove all styles
from the
        >document? This would be similar to Word's "clear formatting"
        >instruction. Alternatively, (perhaps a better option) would be to
have the
        >"Word Importer..." dialog under global settings to have the option
to ignore
        >Word styles. We are often looking to not use any styles but have
Word files
        >as a source and this would be a good option for us.
        >
        >+-------------------------------------------+
        >| Michael Surato |
        >| Resource Center for Persons |
        >| with Disabilities |
        >| Michigan State University |
        >| 120 Bessey Hall |
        >| East Lansing, MI 48824 |
        >| Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
        >+-------------------------------------------+ 
        > 
        >
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie
Diggs
        >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:08 PM
        >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        >> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
        >> 
        >> Hmmmm.... Now I'm pondering. :)
        >> 
        >> The case you mention is not quite what I had in mind. If a user
knows 
        >> how to enter the style to find as a style tag, what is the
likelihood 
        >> that he/she will then turn around enter the replacement style as
plain 
        >> text?
        >> Granted, I've seen stranger user behavior, but my gut is telling
me 
        >> that this scenario isn't going to happen all that often. So **for

        >> this
        >> scenario** I'd say clean up the error message.
        >> 
        >> The scenario I'm envisioning is a bit different. What if you 
        >> imported a document from Word and, due to the default formatting
in 
        >> Word, wound up with text in Duxbury that was formatted with the 
        >> paragraph style, but really should be formatted as text separated
by a 
        >> new line? In that instance, you could replace the paragraph style

        >> with the code [l] or [<]. So the user gets into the find/replace 
        >> dialog, manually enters the style tag, manually enters the code,
and 
        >> then sees the replace stylename checkbox and has to decide
whether or 
        >> not to check it. A reasonable thing, I think, for the user to

        >> conclude is that he/she is indeed replacing a stylename:
        >> The stylename <para.> is being replaced with the code [l]. 
        >> That might not be what the intent of that checkbox is, but the
user 
        >> will check it all the same. :) Even if you clean up the error

        >> message, our hypothetical user is not going to understand what
the 
        >> problem is. So in this case I'd vote for either option 1 (just do
the 
        >> replace) or option 2 (are you sure you want to replace your style
with 
        >> this code).
        >> 
        >> --Joanie
        >> 
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
        >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:19 PM
        >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        >> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
        >> 
        >> Joanie,
        >> 
        >> I've been pondering this a bit.
        >> 
        >> The behavior that you're now seeing -- apart from the ugliness of
the 
        >> error message -- is at least somewhat intentional.
        >> 
        >> What I wonder is, when a user types in a "style name to find"

        >> as a style tag, and a "style name with which to replace it" 
        >> as plain text, then checks "replace stylename", just what is the 
        >> intent? Is the user intending to replace style tags in the
document 
        >> with plain text? With "replace stylename"
        >> checked, that's never what DBT will do.
        >> 
        >> So we deliberately stopped short of handling the "mixed entry
method" 
        >> case that you cite, for fear that we'd otherwise be doing
something 
        >> that the user wasn't expecting. Perhaps with Undo available,
that's 
        >> not such a big deal.
        >> 
        >> Anyhow, I have some choices for you (and others who may care to 
        >> express an opinion). Shall we:
        >> 1. Just go ahead and replace the one style with the other,
despite 
        >> the odd data entry,
        >> 2. Warn the user about the apparent inconsistency, and go ahead
with 
        >> the replacement if the user confirms it, or
        >> 3. Just clean up the error message?
        >> 
        >> - Peter
        >> 
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie
Diggs
        >> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:23 PM
        >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        >> Subject: [duxhelp] Finding and replacing styles
        >> 
        >> Hi all. With respect to this fix:
        >> ---
        >> DBT's Find and Replace dialogs are more flexible about
understanding a 
        >> user's intent to search for or replace styles. It is now possible
to 
        >> use Control-< to enter the style as a tag and check the
"Find/Replace 
        >> style"
        >> checkbox.
        >> ---
        >> If you: 
        >> 1. manually insert a style with Control-< 2. put a non-style in
the 
        >> replace with edit box 3. check the replace stylename checkbox
        >> 
        >> You still get the error dialog. The error message isn't very
pretty 
        >> either.
        >> Here is the screen shot of the dialog that appeared when I tried
to 
        >> replace the para style with the linefeed code -- both of which
were 
        >> manually entered.
        >> 
        >> 
        >> 
        >> And for the benefit of screen reader users, here is the text
(which I 
        >> would read with all punctuation turned on -- also note the 
        >> non-printing character that appears after each open quotation
-- JAWS 
        >> says it's "character 28")
        >> 
        >> There is no style defined with the name "es~para.. Are you sure
you 
        >> want to replace all occurrences of the style "es~para. with "l?
        >> 
        >> Take care.
        >> Joanie
        >> 
        >> 
        >> 
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