[duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

  • From: "Peter Sullivan" <peter@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:16:15 -0400

Joanie,

I definitely meant Control-Shift-End.  Thanks for catching that.

I did try this procedure, but it was almost a week ago.  Memories fad.

- Peter 

-----Original Message-----
From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Joanmarie Diggs
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 1:16 PM
To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles

Peter, on step 2, do you mean Control Shift End to select to the end of the
document?  Join styles doesn't seem to be available if text isn't selected.


Take care.
Joanie

> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:39 PM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
> 
> Michael,
> 
> We may be able to help you out quite a bit without changing the 
> software.
> 
> Barring a new importer option, which is unlikely to be introduced now 
> for inclusion in DBT 10.6, what you do want to do is "Join Styles" and 
> then remove a single pair of style tags.  Mike already gave you an 
> explanation of why this isn't working in your document, but I don't 
> think he mentioned what you can do about it.  Try this:
> 
> 1. Push Control-Home to position the cursor at the first printable 
> character in the document -- within the first opening linear style 
> tag.
> 2. Push Control-End to move to the end of the document.
> 3. Choose Layout, Join Styles.
> 
> After this, push Control-Home again, switch to coded view
> (Alt-F3) if you're not already there, use the arrow keys to move just 
> to the right of the opening style tag, and push Backspace.  You should 
> now have a document with no linear style tags, but at least a [l] code 
> between each paragraph.
> 
> The process no doubt sounds a bit cumbersome.  However, it should be 
> pretty quick once you've waded through the instructions and actually 
> tried it.
> 
> Please let me know how that works for you.  I'd like to offer you a 
> better solution, but that will take more time than I presume to have 
> in this beta cycle.
> 
> - Peter
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael Surato
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 1:58 PM
> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
> 
> Quite true. Perhaps I could describe what I am seeing as the main 
> issue that we have, and see if that is what others are asking for with 
> this feature.
> 
> When we import a document into Duxbury we usually have a document with 
> only the "normal" style applied (no indentation). When this is opened 
> in Duxbury the <para.> style is applied which creates unwanted 
> indentation and other such artifacts. What we are asking for is the 
> option of importing the document without this association applied.
> 
> To generalize this case, I would create an option (that I would bury 
> in the menus well, as this would be an "advanced"
> option) that would not recognize any linear styles. This would be very 
> literal, and would only replace codes that terminate a line with [l] 
> codes. All other codes would be replaced with nothing.
> 
> +-------------------------------------------+
> |            Michael Surato                 |
> |      Resource Center for Persons          |
> |           with Disabilities               |
> |      Michigan State University            |
> |            120 Bessey Hall                |
> |        East Lansing, MI 48824             |
> | Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
> +-------------------------------------------+
>   
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
>       From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don Breda
>       Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 9:56 AM
>       To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>       
>       
>       Hi MIke.
>       
>       As I stated in a prior message I like this proposal but it is not 
> without its problems.
>       
>       Take for example styles such as <outline.>. Even if the style were 
> removed its effects would remain largely in place due to the numerous 
> [hl] codes that would remain in the document.
>       
>       While an obvious suggestion would be to remove them between the
begin 
> and end style commands, what would we replace them with?
>       
>       1. replace [hl1] codes with [l] codes?
>       
>       2. Replace [hl2] codes with [p] codes?
>       3. Replace these codes with nothing?
>       
>       4. non of these suggestions quite work because they do not take 
> account of the [hi] declarations in the first place which may or may 
> not be as you expect and secondly the [hl] commands can get quite high 
> in number (ie. many of them and also going up to a high level number 
> such as [hl9].
>       
>       
>       I guess I am only bringing up this to point out for all including 
> myself when looking for a new feature just how much thought, planning 
> and building a programming philosophy it really takes before deciding 
> to actually launch a new feature.
>       
>       
>       
>       Don
>       
>       On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:29:16 -0500, Michael Surato wrote:
>       
>       >Along these same lines, is there an option to remove all styles
from 
> the
>       >document? This would be similar to Word's "clear formatting"
>       >instruction. Alternatively, (perhaps a better option) would be to 
> have
>       >the "Word Importer..." dialog under global settings to have the 
> option
>       >to ignore Word styles. We are often looking to not use any styles 
> but
>       >have Word files as a source and this would be a good option for us.
>       >
>       >+-------------------------------------------+
>       >| Michael Surato |
>       >| Resource Center for Persons |
>       >| with Disabilities |
>       >| Michigan State University |
>       >| 120 Bessey Hall |
>       >| East Lansing, MI 48824 |
>       >| Voice: (517) 353-9643 Fax: (517) 432-3191 |
>       >+-------------------------------------------+ 
>       > 
>       >
>       >> -----Original Message-----
>       >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>       >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie
Diggs
>       >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 2:08 PM
>       >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>       >> 
>       >> Hmmmm.... Now I'm pondering. :)
>       >> 
>       >> The case you mention is not quite what I had in mind. If a 
>       >> user knows how to enter the style to find as a style tag, 
>       >> what is the likelihood that he/she will then turn around 
>       >> enter the replacement style as plain text?
>       >> Granted, I've seen stranger user behavior, but my gut is 
>       >> telling me that this scenario isn't going to happen all that 
>       >> often. So **for this
>       >> scenario** I'd say clean up the error message.
>       >> 
>       >> The scenario I'm envisioning is a bit different. What if 
>       >> you imported a document from Word and, due to the default 
>       >> formatting in Word, wound up with text in Duxbury that was 
>       >> formatted with the paragraph style, but really should be 
>       >> formatted as text separated by a new line? In that instance, 
>       >> you could replace the paragraph style with the code [l] or 
>       >> [<]. So the user gets into the find/replace dialog, manually 
>       >> enters the style tag, manually enters the code, and then sees
> 
>       >> the replace stylename checkbox and has to decide whether or 
>       >> not to check it. A reasonable thing, I think, for the user 
>       >> to conclude is that he/she is indeed replacing a stylename: 
>       >> The stylename <para.> is being replaced with the code [l]. 
>       >> That might not be what the intent of that checkbox is, but 
>       >> the user will check it all the same. :) Even if you clean up 
>       >> the error message, our hypothetical user is not going to 
>       >> understand what the problem is. So in this case I'd vote for 
>       >> either option 1 (just do the replace) or option 2 (are you 
>       >> sure you want to replace your style with this code).
>       >> 
>       >> --Joanie
>       >> 
>       >> -----Original Message-----
>       >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>       >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Peter Sullivan
>       >> Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:19 PM
>       >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> Subject: [duxhelp] Re: Finding and replacing styles
>       >> 
>       >> Joanie,
>       >> 
>       >> I've been pondering this a bit.
>       >> 
>       >> The behavior that you're now seeing -- apart from the 
>       >> ugliness of the error message -- is at least somewhat
intentional.
>       >> 
>       >> What I wonder is, when a user types in a "style name to find"
> 
>       >> as a style tag, and a "style name with which to replace it" 
>       >> as plain text, then checks "replace stylename", just what is 
>       >> the intent? Is the user intending to replace style tags in 
>       >> the document with plain text? With "replace stylename" 
>       >> checked, that's never what DBT will do.
>       >> 
>       >> So we deliberately stopped short of handling the "mixed entry
> 
>       >> method" case that you cite, for fear that we'd otherwise be 
>       >> doing something that the user wasn't expecting. Perhaps with 
>       >> Undo available, that's not such a big deal.
>       >> 
>       >> Anyhow, I have some choices for you (and others who may care 
>       >> to express an opinion). Shall we:
>       >> 1. Just go ahead and replace the one style with the other, 
>       >> despite the odd data entry,
>       >> 2. Warn the user about the apparent inconsistency, and go 
>       >> ahead with the replacement if the user confirms it, or
>       >> 3. Just clean up the error message?
>       >> 
>       >> - Peter 
>       >> 
>       >> -----Original Message-----
>       >> From: duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>       >> [mailto:duxhelp-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joanmarie
Diggs
>       >> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 3:23 PM
>       >> To: duxhelp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>       >> Subject: [duxhelp] Finding and replacing styles
>       >> 
>       >> Hi all. With respect to this fix:
>       >> ---
>       >> DBT's Find and Replace dialogs are more flexible about 
>       >> understanding a user's intent to search for or replace 
>       >> styles. It is now possible to use Control-< to enter the 
>       >> style as a tag and check the "Find/Replace style"
>       >> checkbox.
>       >> ---
>       >> If you: 
>       >> 1. manually insert a style with Control-< 2. put a non-style 
>       >> in the replace with edit box 3. check the replace stylename 
> checkbox
>       >> 
>       >> You still get the error dialog. The error message isn't very 
>       >> pretty either.
>       >> Here is the screen shot of the dialog that appeared when I 
>       >> tried to replace the para style with the linefeed code -- 
>       >> both of which were manually entered.
>       >> 
>       >> 
>       >> 
>       >> And for the benefit of screen reader users, here is the text 
>       >> (which I would read with all punctuation turned on -- also 
>       >> note the non-printing character that appears after each open 
>       >> quotation -- JAWS says it's "character 28")
>       >> 
>       >> There is no style defined with the name "es~para.. Are you 
>       >> sure you want to replace all occurrences of the style 
>       >> "es~para. with "l? 
>       >> 
>       >> Take care.
>       >> Joanie
>       >> 
>       >> 
>       >> 
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