[Wittrs] Re: Defining Consciousness -- Can we, and if so what is it?

  • From: "Cayuse" <z.z7@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <Wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:00:21 +0100

Stuart wrote:
> Cayuse wrote:
>> Stuart wrote:
>>> And what has microcosm as a concept (if it can even be one?) to do with 
>>> understanding how brains make minds? 
>>
>> That all depends on how you're using the word "mind". If you're using it in 
>> a behaviorist sense then the concept of the microcosm has nothing to do with 
>> it at all. If you're taking it to be synonymous with the microcosm, then you 
>> are trying to understand how brains make microcosms.
> 
> But I never mentioned microcosms and, in fact, specifically reject that 
> usage. So what has my claim about brains and minds to do with that? 

If you're using the word mind in a behaviorist sense then the concept of the 
microcosm has nothing to do with it at all. But in that case neither has it 
anything to do with the use that Nagel makes of the word consciousness. 


>> Actions are observable, as is any other behavioral trait you wish to 
>> mention. What I don't understand is how consciousness (or any aspect of it) 
>> can be observed.
<snip> 
>> Thoughts (etc.) take their place in the microcosm, but I don't know what it 
>> means to speak of an observer of thoughts (etc.)
> 
> We observe them, albeit not with our sensory apparatus but by attending to 
> them (which may include attending to our sensory inputs). 

What is this "me" that putatively "observes thoughts"?


>>> How can it be nonsensical if we can shut down a brain and end consciousness 
>>
>> I don't know how you can make any such claim about consciousness when the 
>> idea has not been derived from empirical data (unless you're stipulating it 
>> to be a behavioral trait).
> 
> Do you think consciousness happens without brains (or some equivalent)? 

It would be nonsensical to make any such claim.


> I'm being called away. Any further responses will have to wait. Sorry but the 
> world (not the microcosm) beckons.

Strange. You didn't have to hit the "send" button until you'd finished.

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