[pure-silver] Re: The Quest and My Heresy??
- From: "Ralph W. Lambrecht" <info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: PureSilverNew <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 17:55:20 +0100
To me random chance is not art, but that may not exclude serendipity as
being the occasional luck a hard working artist needs sometimes.
Regards
Ralph W. Lambrecht
http://www.darkroomagic.com
On 2006-12-21 14:22, "BOB KISS" <bobkiss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> My 20 cents:
> DEAR SPEEDY,
> I see two confusions on this thread which I have been following
> since the "vacation" setting was turned off a few days ago.
> 1) I didn't see anyone differentiating between "image" and "print"...i.e.
> content and form, "picture" and object of art. We see tons of images on
> computer screens, TV screens, and printed on impermanent magazine pages.
> Some of the images are ART and most are not. The finished physical form, in
> which the image is presented, (in most of our cases, the finished print) is
> the object of art. This is NOT semantics! Anyone who has held a
> magnificent print in their hands of an image that they saw on a screen, in a
> book or in a magazine, whether by someone they revere as a "master" or,
> hopefully, one of their own, has had the experience of knowing the
> difference between image and object of art. I know that it is difficult,
> when viewing a magnificent print, to differentiate between the art of the
> image and the wonderful experience of the print and, if we were non-artist
> viewers, why bother? But as artists we MUST be aware of the two.
> 2) From my perspective, what you are describing is craft. Pre-visualization
> (imagining your vision as a finished print) and the manifestation of that
> vision into a beautiful final print IS CRAFT. Then what is art? Oh, heck,
> that argument will never end but I DO agree that one (of many) of the very
> good definitions is, paraphrasing you, "...a vision that one wants to
> communicate to others". How you, Speedy, see the world is the ART; how you
> express it is the craft.
> *******Of course I agree that when you have done this really well, it is
> academic to try to separate the two...the final experience of great art is a
> whole much greater than the sum of image and craft.
> 3) I agree whole heartedly that an artist must continually strive to master
> their craft because, no matter how good you get, there is always more to
> learn. The end of learning is called death. Many art students seem to think
> they can jump directly into non representational forms without mastering
> their craft but they cite Matisse, Picasso, et al as their heroes. What
> many don't know is that all of those modern masters were master
> craft-persons/painters BEFORE they jumped over the edge into the waters of
> cubism, expressionism, etc.
> 4) If you were to eliminate all art that was the result of serendipity,
> about half of what we call great art would disappear. I have read either
> bios or auto bios of Michelangelo, Picasso, Gauguin, etc and they ALL
> welcomed the serendipitous discovery...and, yes, they signed, showed, and
> sold them. They also, as you suggested, tried to learn what made them
> happen so they could use the lessons of the discovery in their future work
> but they were not shy about claiming them as their own...why? Because THEY
> recognized the beauty and value of that serendipitous discovery when someone
> else might have torn it up and discarded it! I think Picasso said it best
> when talking to a young painter, "What makes me a genius is that I KNOW when
> I am being a genius, you don't."
>
> HOLIDAY CHEERS FROM BARBADOS!
> BOB
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Speedy .
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 9:44 PM
> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: The Quest and My Heresy??
>
> Tim Rudman wrote:
>> Yes, I know what the image is Dana, and how it gets onto the print is
>> critical to how it communicates with the viewer - and therefore how
>> 'interesting' it is (to that viewer), or perhaps 'engaging' might be a
>> better term for what I mean.
> I'm not sure I follow "how it gets onto the print is critical". What do you
> mean by this?
> My point is that the image - the print - is the result. There's a process
> that results in a print, but the viewer doesn't see the process, or even
> really care about the process. The print stands alone.
> Dana
>
> The viewer may or may not be aware of the process Dana, depending on their
> interest and experience, but the print only 'stands alone' because of it and
> the elements within it.
> Tim
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> I am posting late as I am way behind in reading my email. I know there are
> many posts below the last one that I read and by the time anyone reads this
> the subject will likely have been beaten to death... I finally just had to
> weigh in.
>
> There are Images and there is "Art."
>
> Anybody can create an image, but can just anyone create Art? My answer is a
>
> qualified YES.
>
> The following are my concepts. Feel free to agree or disagree. I won't try
>
> to tell you that I am right or wrong...
>
> An ARTIST is someone who has a vision that they would like to convey to
> others. They use some medium to convey this vision (or idea) to others.
> That medium might be words, or music, or paint, or scuplture, or even
> photography. In order for that artist to relay that vision (or idea) to
> someone else they must master the tools and techniques of their chosen
> medium. The better their skill and mastery of the medium the better they
> are able to communicate with their potential viewers.
>
> As a photographer attempting to produce art I must previsualize what the
> final output from the image I am trying to create will look like. Before
> tripping the shutter I decide what to photograph, the time of year, time of
> day, and conditions under which I will make my exposure. I make decisions
> about lens choice, shutterspeed, aperture, and zone placement. I decide
> what film I will use to make the negative with, and when exposing I have a
> very good idea of the paper and size print I ultimately will want to create,
>
> as well as any other special processing that I might want to do to make the
> print equal my visualized end result. In short, before tripping the shutter
>
> I know what I want the image to ultimately look like and the intermediate
> steps in the process of creating the print that conveys my Vision (or Idea)
> to the viewer.
>
> As an (aspiring) artist, I must master the tools and techniques necessary to
>
> create the image that matches my vision. I don't see any problem in
> attempting to duplicate a technique that someone else has demonstrated in
> the attempt to master another technique and gain one more tool in my toobox
> of techniques for creating the images that match my vision.
>
> As an (aspiring) artist, I will not show someone a "Lucky Mistake" and tell
> them it was art. I might try to understand how the lucky mistake happened
> and learn to create the effect on demand, but If I did not previsualize the
> result no matter how cool the image is it is not in my judgement ART, and
> even though someone else might think it is cool and that it speaks to them
> it is still not art because it was not the image that I set out to create.
>
> The lucky mistake mentioned above is an Image. It is not art. I know that
> is splitting hairs, but the whole point is that it is our mastery of
> techniques that allow us to create the images that we visualize on demand.
>
> I've rambled enough. If you've read this far - THANKS for your patience!
>
> Speedy
>
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