[pure-silver] Re: The Quest and My Heresy??
- From: Laurence Cuffe <cuffe@xxxxxxx>
- To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 10:34:09 -0800
On Thursday, December 21, 2006, at 11:54AM, "Ralph W. Lambrecht"
<info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>To me random chance is not art, but that may not exclude serendipity as
>being the occasional luck a hard working artist needs sometimes.
>
One of my favorite examples of serendipity in the darkroom, is a mouse running
across Lee Miller's feet in the darkroom in Paris, she turned on the light and
the result was that Man Ray ended up getting into solarized prints, some of Lee
Miller herself.
All the best
Larry Cuffe
>
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>Regards
>
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>Ralph W. Lambrecht
>
>http://www.darkroomagic.com
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>On 2006-12-21 14:22, "BOB KISS" <bobkiss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> My 20 cents:
>> DEAR SPEEDY,
>> I see two confusions on this thread which I have been following
>> since the "vacation" setting was turned off a few days ago.
>> 1) I didn't see anyone differentiating between "image" and "print"...i.e.
>> content and form, "picture" and object of art. We see tons of images on
>> computer screens, TV screens, and printed on impermanent magazine pages.
>> Some of the images are ART and most are not. The finished physical form, in
>> which the image is presented, (in most of our cases, the finished print) is
>> the object of art. This is NOT semantics! Anyone who has held a
>> magnificent print in their hands of an image that they saw on a screen, in a
>> book or in a magazine, whether by someone they revere as a "master" or,
>> hopefully, one of their own, has had the experience of knowing the
>> difference between image and object of art. I know that it is difficult,
>> when viewing a magnificent print, to differentiate between the art of the
>> image and the wonderful experience of the print and, if we were non-artist
>> viewers, why bother? But as artists we MUST be aware of the two.
>> 2) From my perspective, what you are describing is craft. Pre-visualization
>> (imagining your vision as a finished print) and the manifestation of that
>> vision into a beautiful final print IS CRAFT. Then what is art? Oh, heck,
>> that argument will never end but I DO agree that one (of many) of the very
>> good definitions is, paraphrasing you, "...a vision that one wants to
>> communicate to others". How you, Speedy, see the world is the ART; how you
>> express it is the craft.
>> *******Of course I agree that when you have done this really well, it is
>> academic to try to separate the two...the final experience of great art is a
>> whole much greater than the sum of image and craft.
>> 3) I agree whole heartedly that an artist must continually strive to master
>> their craft because, no matter how good you get, there is always more to
>> learn. The end of learning is called death. Many art students seem to think
>> they can jump directly into non representational forms without mastering
>> their craft but they cite Matisse, Picasso, et al as their heroes. What
>> many don't know is that all of those modern masters were master
>> craft-persons/painters BEFORE they jumped over the edge into the waters of
>> cubism, expressionism, etc.
>> 4) If you were to eliminate all art that was the result of serendipity,
>> about half of what we call great art would disappear. I have read either
>> bios or auto bios of Michelangelo, Picasso, Gauguin, etc and they ALL
>> welcomed the serendipitous discovery...and, yes, they signed, showed, and
>> sold them. They also, as you suggested, tried to learn what made them
>> happen so they could use the lessons of the discovery in their future work
>> but they were not shy about claiming them as their own...why? Because THEY
>> recognized the beauty and value of that serendipitous discovery when someone
>> else might have torn it up and discarded it! I think Picasso said it best
>> when talking to a young painter, "What makes me a genius is that I KNOW when
>> I am being a genius, you don't."
>>
>> HOLIDAY CHEERS FROM BARBADOS!
>> BOB
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Speedy .
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 9:44 PM
>> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: The Quest and My Heresy??
>>
>> Tim Rudman wrote:
>>> Yes, I know what the image is Dana, and how it gets onto the print is
>>> critical to how it communicates with the viewer - and therefore how
>>> 'interesting' it is (to that viewer), or perhaps 'engaging' might be a
>>> better term for what I mean.
>> I'm not sure I follow "how it gets onto the print is critical". What do you
>> mean by this?
>> My point is that the image - the print - is the result. There's a process
>> that results in a print, but the viewer doesn't see the process, or even
>> really care about the process. The print stands alone.
>> Dana
>>
>> The viewer may or may not be aware of the process Dana, depending on their
>> interest and experience, but the print only 'stands alone' because of it and
>> the elements within it.
>> Tim
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> I am posting late as I am way behind in reading my email. I know there are
>> many posts below the last one that I read and by the time anyone reads this
>> the subject will likely have been beaten to death... I finally just had to
>> weigh in.
>>
>> There are Images and there is "Art."
>>
>> Anybody can create an image, but can just anyone create Art? My answer is a
>>
>> qualified YES.
>>
>> The following are my concepts. Feel free to agree or disagree. I won't try
>>
>> to tell you that I am right or wrong...
>>
>> An ARTIST is someone who has a vision that they would like to convey to
>> others. They use some medium to convey this vision (or idea) to others.
>> That medium might be words, or music, or paint, or scuplture, or even
>> photography. In order for that artist to relay that vision (or idea) to
>> someone else they must master the tools and techniques of their chosen
>> medium. The better their skill and mastery of the medium the better they
>> are able to communicate with their potential viewers.
>>
>> As a photographer attempting to produce art I must previsualize what the
>> final output from the image I am trying to create will look like. Before
>> tripping the shutter I decide what to photograph, the time of year, time of
>> day, and conditions under which I will make my exposure. I make decisions
>> about lens choice, shutterspeed, aperture, and zone placement. I decide
>> what film I will use to make the negative with, and when exposing I have a
>> very good idea of the paper and size print I ultimately will want to create,
>>
>> as well as any other special processing that I might want to do to make the
>> print equal my visualized end result. In short, before tripping the shutter
>>
>> I know what I want the image to ultimately look like and the intermediate
>> steps in the process of creating the print that conveys my Vision (or Idea)
>> to the viewer.
>>
>> As an (aspiring) artist, I must master the tools and techniques necessary to
>>
>> create the image that matches my vision. I don't see any problem in
>> attempting to duplicate a technique that someone else has demonstrated in
>> the attempt to master another technique and gain one more tool in my toobox
>> of techniques for creating the images that match my vision.
>>
>> As an (aspiring) artist, I will not show someone a "Lucky Mistake" and tell
>> them it was art. I might try to understand how the lucky mistake happened
>> and learn to create the effect on demand, but If I did not previsualize the
>> result no matter how cool the image is it is not in my judgement ART, and
>> even though someone else might think it is cool and that it speaks to them
>> it is still not art because it was not the image that I set out to create.
>>
>> The lucky mistake mentioned above is an Image. It is not art. I know that
>> is splitting hairs, but the whole point is that it is our mastery of
>> techniques that allow us to create the images that we visualize on demand.
>>
>> I've rambled enough. If you've read this far - THANKS for your patience!
>>
>> Speedy
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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