[pure-silver] Re: Self Critiism (WAS Is anyone out there???)
- From: Tim Daneliuk <tundra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 16:40:13 -0500
mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Well Tim I think you make many valid points, but I would like to comment
> on some of them.
>
> We do not necessarily make art JUST for ourselves. A part of our work
> should be just that. For you with total disregard for anything else.
> It's what keeps us going. But if you are going to make a living selling
> photographs, you are going to have to consider what the market will
> purchase. That part of our art it is the viewers emotions and reactions
> we must consider and not just our own. I am in Texas and western art
> sells far better than it would in New York. Here a good photo of a Blue
> Bonnet in bloom will sell where in most places it would attract no
> special attention. It isn't that one is necessarily better art than the
> other. It is the tastes of the viewer. Might not be what you would
> produce all on your own, but it doesn't mean its not art.
There is a difference between doing commercial work and art. Again,
I'm not saying one is better than the other, merely that they serve
different needs. If you tailor your work to your audience - unless
your artistic vision is exactly the same as your audience's - you are
compromising the artistic integrity of the work to the benefit of its
commercial value. Unlike a lot of purists, I don't happen to think
this is a bad thing. Making a living is a good thing. It's just that
insofar as you do this, you're not really making *your* art. This is
why I decided years ago to not become a commercial photographer. I
loved the art, technology, and technique of photography, but - having
worked for the local pro - I discovered I didn't much like the
commerce and business of photography. A very lucky few photographers
manage to find the time to do both their commercial stuff and their
own art. Ansel Adams was among them, though it's interesting to note
that once he could make a living sell his art, he mostly quit doing
commercial work.
> Now if you mean discard as to not show the image, then that I completely
> agree. You do not have to show anything that you do not feel meets your
> own personal standards. If you mean throw it in the trash, then on that
> I totally disagree for three reasons. One is you never know just how a
> simple image might be viewed in the future. There is a photo taken of a
> former US president on a routine receiving line. He happened to give a
> young woman a hug along the line. Now the President giving a young
> woman a hug is perfectly innocent and normal ie routine till years later
> it turns out that young woman had the first name Monica. Then the image
> was worth a great deal. You never know what might happen.
I keep negatives, transparencies, and (when I bother to shoot this way) digital
files permanently. But prints are *my* interpretation of the negative and I
discard those with great vigor until I get one that meets my personal
standards for quality and expressiveness. The only exception is that I do
keep a box of work prints around so I can compare different paper surfaces,
filtering techniques, and so on.
>
> Number 2 you never know what technology might be in the future that
> might be able to change, fix, repair, or other ways portions of that
> photo might be used to create other works of art. You may never use it
> again, but if its in the garbage the options are 0. How many times have
> you taken an image that prints beautifully as a lith print, but horrible
> in any other way. Who knows what the next Lith might be in the next 50
> years or so. Number 3 is often is as we grow and our perspective
> changes. Sometimes things you don't like at first grows on you later.
> Its not that the image changed, we did.
Again, the source image stays with me permanently. It's various expressions
only go out the door when I am completely happy with them.
>
> I 100 percent agree that a passion for what you do isn't arrogant.
> Those around you that do not make art may or may not understand. I am
> not sure its pointless to try to explain it though. Why? Many
> occupations require creativity, they are just different outlets. IF
> they can think creatively, they will understand. Even if they can't,
> many understand and appreciate a passion for what one does. They may
> not understand but usually will have a deep respect. Others fall into
> the just can't get it category, but that's ok too.
I am now in my 50s. I have lost all desire to convert people to seeing
and doing things my way (except for politics because most of the
popular political views involve other people telling me what to do,
taking my money, or intruding on my privacy). I have better things to
do with my dwindling days. If someone is interested in my process, I'm
delighted to discuss it, but otherwise, I don't bother much.
I see a lot of younger artists with intricate "Artist's Statements"
and complex philosophical explanations of their work. Personally, I
think anything that needs that much explanation is mostly not that
good in the first place. IMNSHO, all Artist's Statements should read:
I did this work because it expresses my view of the world.
I love this work because it is faithful to my vision.
I hope you like it too but if you don't that's OK with me.
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Self Critiism (WAS Is anyone out there???)
> From: Tim Daneliuk <tundra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: Thu, May 14, 2009 1:49 pm
> To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> K W Hart wrote:
> > From: "Tim Daneliuk" <tundra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > snip
> >>>
> >>
> >> <Diving Into The Pool>
> >>
> >> 1) We make art for ourselves not anyone else. The only person to be
> >> satisfied
> >> is thus the artist - each of us - on our own terms, with our own
> >> vision.
> >>
> >> 2) The artist should be merciless in demanding the very best of
> >> themselves,
> >> discarding anything that does not meet their own expectations.
> >>
> >> 3) Our understanding and appraisal of our own work will change
> over time.
> >> This is both because we (hopefully) mature as artists and because our
> >> understanding/vision changes as we go through the orbit of life. If
> >> you do 1) and 2) then you will never look back with regret at the
> stuff
> >> you've done because of 3) - you'll just see new possibilities.
> >>
> >> 4) It is not arrogant to pursue any of this. It's as necessary as
> >> breathing
> >> for a good many of us.
> >>
> >> 5) People around you who are not into making art will never get any of
> >> this
> >> and it's pointless to even try to explain it.
> >>
> >> <Drying Off>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Tim Daneliuk tundra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
> >>
> >
> > If this is your original text, you should copyright it. If it isn't,
> > could you please tell us the author?
> > I think you have pretty much wrapped up this thread.
>
> It's original. Permission hereby given to reproduce in any way,
> medium, or manner you choose so long as you give me authorial
> attribution.
>
> >
> > Someone may argue point #1 by suggesting what about when you are
> > commissioned to create a photograph; you are creating that work for
> > someone else. Hopefully the buyer is aware of the artist's work and has
> > selected the artist based on that work. In which case, the artist
> should
> > create the commissioned work on his own terms, in accordance with his
> > own vision.
>
> I would argue that most commissioned work is primarily commercial,
> not artistic in nature - I'm not saying one is better than the other,
> merely different. It is rare to get a commission that says, "Make
> some art." Usually, it's more like "Take pictures of my drooling
> children and make them seem charming."
>
> >
> > Your post has earned a place on my darkroom bulletin board. But don't
> > get too puffed up- it will go beside the MSDS bulletins!
>
> I am thus honored :)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tim Daneliuk tundra@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
>
>
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