[lit-ideas] Re: Can't have a gun? Get a dog

  • From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 22:39:08 -0700

Good grief!  I guess one of us "needs to read the posts leading up to this."


Here is what Andreas wrote.  Note that he has my statement in quotes.  Note
that he is disagreeing with it:


LH > People are reacting to Eric's comment, but I took him to be speaking

> figuratively.   His principle is valid.  An owner must show a dominant dog

> that he is boss or the dog will think he is. 


AR: This "show 'em who's boss" theory used to be the idea in dog schools. 


But no longer. Professional dog trainers don't do this. 


By the way, it's no longer called "dog obedience school".



After that I wrote: 

We had several dogs trained by Dick Koehler.  He and his father were
authorities on dog training.  They say you need to establish yourself as the
alpha of the pack (aka, show the dogs you are boss).


The Dog Whisperer, Caesar Milan say you need to show the dog you are the
alpha of the pack (aka show the dog you are boss). 


Every trainer I've ever heard from says the same thing.


If you have a dominant dog, you had better prove to him that you're the boss
or you are in for big trouble.


Okay, let's hear how your opposing theory, i.e., showing the dog he is boss,
works better.  And let's hear who your authorities are.




There is no strawman.  Andreas was wrong.   I noticed that Andreas went off
on a tangent about non-dominant dogs, but that had nothing to do with the
statement of mine that he disagreed with.








-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Robert Paul
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 10:29 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Can't have a gun? Get a dog


Lawrence Helm wrote:


> What straw man?  I made a statement that I think all dog trainers will 

> agree with despite Andreas list; which doesn't support his thesis as far 

> as I can tell.  You must show a dominant dog that you are the alpha or 

> he will be the alpha.  If anyone sees a negative implications in this 

> then they put them there.  This is a simple fact - not a straw man.


Read the posts leading up to this, Lawrence. In them, _no one_ denied 

that if one had 'a dominant dog' one had to somehow get the dog to see 

that ultimately it was you who were dominant.


The straw man is the notion that anybody was arguing that anyone here 

might recommend a method of training in which the dog was taught to be 



Robert Paul

Reed College


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