[geocentrism] Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return

  • From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:34:45 -0700 (PDT)

Part A.
 What you are addressing is a problem for the idea of Christ return as 
some future event not the past?!  What you miss is that scripture and Jesus do 
not define the "end of the world as you currently know it" judgment and the 
resurection to all take pace at the same time at Christ return. ..."then cometh 
the end when"...."for he must riegn untill he has put all enimies under His 
feet"...."the last enemy is death"......Here is the punch line......We know 
from revelation ch 20 that Christ Reighn last no less than 1000 years!!! there 
are folks alive on the earth for at least 1000 years after Christ 
return!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....In fact, the futurist nonsense misses the fact 
that there are 2 resurections of the dead not one!. Only the Godly take part in 
the first Resurection and only the wicked take part in the second...On top of 
that there is atleast but not limited to a 1000 years between the start of 
thoes two different Resurections!!.....
the sequence is 1.Christ returns first 2. then the frist resurection ( judment 
begins with the ouse of God.... they live and reign)  that last at least 1000 
years...in fact there are people still alive on the earth after that 1000 
years...which is a 1000 years after Christ returns 3. the "rest of the dead" 
who are not Godly they are the follks left ...they are judged...by christ and 
the saints they are cast into the lake of fire 4. then death and hell are 
cast into the lake of fire.............the futurist miss the whole sequence as 
well as the time line for Christ 2nd comming  Period!........No, what 
you address is not a problem for Christ return in the first century, However, 
to argue that Christ did not come in the first century poses multiple terminal 
problems for those who say he has not returned but will supposedly come at 
sometime in the future!!!

Part B.
As for the term "generation": you missed it on two counts.....
1. The L&P outline a date..ref the disscussion on 666 from the street and the 
wall Dan 70 weks vison ..this will yeild the date of AD 70 and it is the only 
date you can arive at using the numbers in the text consistently. This proof ( 
a mathematical certainty) is indipendent of the next point...... see attached 
and explination below..
2. Christ specificaly identifies folks who would not see physical death untill 
he came back...unless of course you argue that Christ 2nd reterun with His holy 
angels and gathering his saints takes place on multiple occasions??....multiple 
2nd commings??......ummmm.. No Jesus ment it exactly the way He said it the 
problem is folks dont belive HIM...
These two points are independent of each other. The problem is for those who 
say Jesus and the L&P did not know what they were talking about because they do 
not understand scripture.
 The Attached charts I sent you demonstrate and even prove:
1. The Persian kings (found in the text) chronology only works one way and most 
donʼt get it. The AD/BC date line is not only correct ( Denise the little was 
right, his critics donʼt have a clue!) No other construct would be consistent 
with the text itself ..This fact is mathematically demonstrated independent of 
how anyone feels about Astronomy, Daniel, Eschatology or anything else for that 
matter. It covers all possibilities, shows only one consistent within the times 
listed in the text itself independent but especialy if you take broad but 
generaly accepted historical facts into consideration. 
2 The middle of the week in Daniel 9 was accomplished in AD 70 (still half a 
week left "unto the consummation") Ad 70 was not the end of everything!..it was 
only the middle of Daniel's last week. The last week is 7 years. The gentiles 
trampled the city for the remainder 3 1/2 years of 1260 days..."even unto the 
consummation"... "your redemption draweth nigh"....This the whole point 
to:..Time( 70weeks) Times(62&7weeks); and half a time (1 week) the confirmation 
was for the whole week but in the middle of that week was the end to sacrifice 
and offering...."unto the consumation

3. 666 refers to the only man that was also a beast found in the biblical text 
let him who has wisdom count 666 years.......This is the number of years the 
heathen are allowed to rule "in the land" of God. AD 70 the physical kingdom is 
destroyed in favor of a completely Spiritual kingdom with no flesh and blood in 
it to corrupt it. Flesh and blood cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. 
4. The redemption work "Put an end to sin"; "make reconciliation for 
iniquity"(Dan 9 & Luke 21 et al) of God was not accomplished until after the 
physical temple was destroyed. Christ could not enter into the holy of holies 
while the first physical temple was standing. The physical temple was destroyed 
in AD 70 only then could our high priest (after the order of Melchisedec not 
Arron!) enter and finishing the reconciliation and receptive work done on the 
cross....Even most preterist, particularly reformed theological ones donʼt get 
Hebrews 9:1.  Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine 
service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2.  For there was a tabernacle made; the 
first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is 
called the sanctuary. 3.  And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is 
called the Holiest of all; 4.  Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the 
covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had 
manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5.  And 
over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now 
speak particularly. 6.  Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests 
went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7.  
But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without 
blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8.  The 
Holy Ghost this signifying, that
 the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first 
tabernacle was yet standing: 9.  Which was a figure for the time then present, 
in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that 
did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10.  Which stood only 
in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on 
them until the time of reformation. 11.  But Christ being come an high priest 
of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with 
hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12.  Neither by the blood of goats 
and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having 
obtained eternal redemption for us. 13.  For if the blood of bulls and of 
goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the 
purifying of the flesh: 14.  How much more shall the blood of Christ, who 
through the eternal Spirit
 offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to 
serve the living God? 15.  And for this cause he is the mediator of the new 
testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions 
that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the 
promise of eternal inheritance. 16.  For where a testament is, there must also 
of necessity be the death of the testator. 17.  For a testament is of force 
after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator 
liveth. 18.  Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 
19.  For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the 
law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, 
and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20.  Saying, This 
is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21.  Moreover 
he sprinkled with blood
 both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22.  And almost all 
things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no 
remission. 23.  It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the 
heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with 
better sacrifices than these. 24.  For Christ is not entered into the holy 
places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven 
itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:25.  Nor yet that he should 
offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year 
with blood of others; 26.  For then must he often have suffered since the 
foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared 
to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27.  And as it is appointed unto 
men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28.  So Christ was once offered 
to bear the sins of many; and
 unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto 
Chirst appears without sin the second time because here in Ch 9 it just told 
you that it is only after Christ goes itno the holy of holies (only after the 
physical temple was destroyed) that the redemption for the sins under the first 
covenant could be fully accomplished at that time when He would come again.
If christ did not Come when he said He would in that generation in their life 
time ...then there is no hope of anything!

--- On Thu, 8/21/08, PETER CHARLTON <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: PETER CHARLTON <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 3:31 AM

Trouble with this view of Christs return in 70 ad, is that some rather 
remarkable things happen after his 1000 year rule has ended, things such as 
death and hell being thrown in the lake of fire, well we still have death dont 
we?, I also do not see the tent of God being with mankind at present, etc etc, 
in fact it looks very much to me as if the Devil is still running the world.
When Jesus talked about a "generation," he had just been talking about the sign 
of his prescence, and said the generation that saw these signs, would still be 
alive to see his second coming, not the generation that saw his first coming.
Pete Charlton     

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bernie Brauer 
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:14 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19

Kevin Craig has this:

2008/8/20 <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

With respect to your last two post, the general thrust being we should take 
scripture literally. However, as you well know different people even the ones 
who hold that view only carry it in so far as their philosophies or doctrine 
allow. In the same way that some folks look at that verse and say see.. the sun 
moves..I look at Jesus remarks and say...see Jesus' 2nd coming took place just 
as he described in that generation, in the lifetime of those he talked with. In 
fact If Jesus did not come then what in the world is peoples faith in why are 
they Christian at all. If Christ did not do what he said he would do almost 
2000 years ago what in the world makes folks think Christ will one day do it?! 
If His comments were not the literal truth of the matter, then how do you know 
how to "interpret the truth" that without first knowing what the truth is?! 
This is the same kind of questions the atheist and agnostics pose to those who 
do not take scripture at face
 value when it plainly states the sun moves and the earth. Folks missed Christ 
first coming looking for a physical king..they missed his second coming 
because......They are looking for a physical king...imagine that!....even after 
He specifically spoke to that effect otherwise.....What in the world are people 
looking for?!...Many are going to wake up one day and realize, after it is too 
late, God meant what he said and said exactly what he 
meant...."interpretations" were worthless.....the sun not the earth moves...and 
Christ did come exactly when he said he would to judge the world and that is 
what is taking place now.......they are being slain by the word of his mouth, 
when the first resurrection is complete then they too will be resurrected but 
with a much different fate, ....damnation ....because they "received not the 
love of the truth" nor did they " love His appearing" ........
--- On Wed, 8/20/08, Bernie Brauer <bbrauer777@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Bernie Brauer <bbrauer777@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Psalm 19
To: "Geocentrism/RealityReviewed" <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 8:37 AM 

"Psalm 19 gives us an awesome look at the transforming power of God and his 
word. Verses 1-6 declare the glory of God's creation and the fact the heavens 
and skies are enduring evidence of God's existence and creative power."
 1The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his 
 2Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 
 3There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 
 4Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of 
the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 
 5Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong 
man to run a race. 
 6His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends 
of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof."

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