[geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
- From: "PETER CHARLTON" <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:34:13 +0100
Mines needs scrolling as well.
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:35 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
I have another post to make here latter this evening but let see if we
can get this fixed...i dont know why it would be doing that mine comes out ok
...how about anyone else?
--- On Thu, 8/21/08, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 2:08 PM
Allen I canna read your mail, scrolling sideways, the lines stretch
all the way to my neighbours house.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:34 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
Peter,
Part A.
What you are addressing is a problem for the idea of Christ
return as some future event not the past?! What you miss is that scripture and
Jesus do not define the "end of the world as you currently know it" judgment
and the resurection to all take pace at the same time at Christ return.
..."then cometh the end when"...."for he must riegn untill he has put all
enimies under His feet"...."the last enemy is death"......Here is the punch
line......We know from revelation ch 20 that Christ Reighn last no less than
1000 years!!! there are folks alive on the earth for at least 1000 years after
Christ return!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....In fact, the futurist nonsense misses the fact
that there are 2 resurections of the dead not one!. Only the Godly take part in
the first Resurection and only the wicked take part in the second...On top of
that there is atleast but not limited to a 1000 years between the start of
thoes two different Resurections!!.....
the sequence is 1.Christ returns first 2. then the frist
resurection ( judment begins with the ouse of God.... they live and reign)
that last at least 1000 years...in fact there are people still alive on the
earth after that 1000 years...which is a 1000 years after Christ returns 3. the
"rest of the dead" who are not Godly they are the follks left ...they are
judged...by christ and the saints they are cast into the lake of fire 4. then
death and hell are cast into the lake of fire.............the futurist miss the
whole sequence as well as the time line for Christ 2nd comming
Period!........No, what you address is not a problem for Christ return in the
first century, However, to argue that Christ did not come in the first century
poses multiple terminal problems for those who say he has not returned but will
supposedly come at sometime in the future!!!
Part B.
As for the term "generation": you missed it on two counts.....
1. The L&P outline a date..ref the disscussion on 666 from
the street and the wall Dan 70 weks vison ..this will yeild the date of AD 70
and it is the only date you can arive at using the numbers in the text
consistently. This proof ( a mathematical certainty) is indipendent of the next
point...... see attached and explination below..
2. Christ specificaly identifies folks who would not see
physical death untill he came back...unless of course you argue that Christ 2nd
reterun with His holy angels and gathering his saints takes place on multiple
occasions??....multiple 2nd commings??......ummmm.. No Jesus ment it exactly
the way He said it the problem is folks dont belive HIM...
These two points are independent of each other. The problem
is for those who say Jesus and the L&P did not know what they were talking
about because they do not understand scripture.
The Attached charts I sent you demonstrate and even prove:
1. The Persian kings (found in the text) chronology only
works one way and most donʼt get it. The AD/BC date line is not only correct (
Denise the little was right, his critics donʼt have a clue!) No other construct
would be consistent with the text itself ..This fact is mathematically
demonstrated independent of how anyone feels about Astronomy, Daniel,
Eschatology or anything else for that matter. It covers all possibilities,
shows only one consistent within the times listed in the text itself
independent but especialy if you take broad but generaly accepted historical
facts into consideration.
2 The middle of the week in Daniel 9 was accomplished in AD
70 (still half a week left "unto the consummation") Ad 70 was not the end of
everything!..it was only the middle of Daniel's last week. The last week is 7
years. The gentiles trampled the city for the remainder 3 1/2 years of 1260
days..."even unto the consummation"... "your redemption draweth nigh"....This
the whole point to:..Time( 70weeks) Times(62&7weeks); and half a time (1 week)
the confirmation was for the whole week but in the middle of that week was the
end to sacrifice and offering...."unto the consumation
3. 666 refers to the only man that was also a beast found in
the biblical text let him who has wisdom count 666 years.......This is the
number of years the heathen are allowed to rule "in the land" of God. AD 70 the
physical kingdom is destroyed in favor of a completely Spiritual kingdom with
no flesh and blood in it to corrupt it. Flesh and blood cannot enter into the
kingdom of heaven.
4. The redemption work "Put an end to sin"; "make
reconciliation for iniquity"(Dan 9 & Luke 21 et al) of God was not accomplished
until after the physical temple was destroyed. Christ could not enter into the
holy of holies while the first physical temple was standing. The physical
temple was destroyed in AD 70 only then could our high priest (after the order
of Melchisedec not Arron!) enter and finishing the reconciliation and receptive
work done on the cross....Even most preterist, particularly reformed
theological ones donʼt get it!!!
Hebrews 9:1. Then verily the first covenant had also
ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2. For there was a
tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the
shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3. And after the second veil, the
tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; 4. Which had the golden censer,
and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the
golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the
covenant; 5. And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of
which we cannot now speak particularly. 6. Now when these things were thus
ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the
service of God. 7. But into the second went the high priest alone once every
year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of
the people: 8. The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest
of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet
standing: 9. Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were
offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service
perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10. Which stood only in meats and
drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the
time of reformation. 11. But Christ being come an high priest of good things
to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is
to say, not of this building; 12. Neither by the blood of goats and calves,
but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained
eternal redemption for us. 13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the
ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the
flesh: 14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal
Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead
works to serve the living God? 15. And for this cause he is the mediator of
the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the
transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might
receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16. For where a testament is,
there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17. For a testament
is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the
testator liveth. 18. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated
without blood. 19. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people
according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and
scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20.
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels
of the ministry. 22. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood;
and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23. It was therefore necessary
that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but
the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24. For
Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the
figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of
God for us:25. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest
entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26. For then
must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in
the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of
himself. 27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the
judgment: 28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto
them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto
salvation.
Chirst appears without sin the second time because here in Ch
9 it just told you that it is only after Christ goes itno the holy of holies
(only after the physical temple was destroyed) that the redemption for the sins
under the first covenant could be fully accomplished at that time when He would
come again.
If christ did not Come when he said He would in that
generation in their life time ...then there is no hope of anything!
--- On Thu, 8/21/08, PETER CHARLTON
<peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: PETER CHARLTON <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 3:31 AM
Trouble with this view of Christs return in 70 ad, is that
some rather remarkable things happen after his 1000 year rule has ended, things
such as death and hell being thrown in the lake of fire, well we still have
death dont we?, I also do not see the tent of God being with mankind at
present, etc etc, in fact it looks very much to me as if the Devil is still
running the world.
When Jesus talked about a "generation," he had just been
talking about the sign of his prescence, and said the generation that saw these
signs, would still be alive to see his second coming, not the generation that
saw his first coming.
Pete Charlton
----- Original Message -----
From: Bernie Brauer
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:14 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19
Allen,
Kevin Craig has this:
http://members.aol.com/VFTprayer/heaven/antichrist.htm
Bernie
2008/8/20 <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
With respect to your last two post, the general
thrust being we should take scripture literally. However, as you well know
different people even the ones who hold that view only carry it in so far as
their philosophies or doctrine allow. In the same way that some folks look at
that verse and say see.. the sun moves..I look at Jesus remarks and say...see
Jesus' 2nd coming took place just as he described in that generation, in the
lifetime of those he talked with. In fact If Jesus did not come then what in
the world is peoples faith in why are they Christian at all. If Christ did not
do what he said he would do almost 2000 years ago what in the world makes folks
think Christ will one day do it?! If His comments were not the literal truth of
the matter, then how do you know how to "interpret the truth" that without
first knowing what the truth is?! This is the same kind of questions the
atheist and agnostics pose to those who do not take scripture at face value
when it plainly states the sun moves and the earth. Folks missed Christ first
coming looking for a physical king..they missed his second coming
because......They are looking for a physical king...imagine that!....even after
He specifically spoke to that effect otherwise.....What in the world are people
looking for?!...Many are going to wake up one day and realize, after it is too
late, God meant what he said and said exactly what he
meant...."interpretations" were worthless.....the sun not the earth moves...and
Christ did come exactly when he said he would to judge the world and that is
what is taking place now.......they are being slain by the word of his mouth,
when the first resurrection is complete then they too will be resurrected but
with a much different fate, ....damnation ....because they "received not the
love of the truth" nor did they " love His appearing" ........
--- On Wed, 8/20/08, Bernie Brauer
<bbrauer777@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Bernie Brauer <bbrauer777@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Psalm 19
To: "Geocentrism/RealityReviewed"
<geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 8:37 AM
"Psalm 19 gives us an awesome look at the
transforming power of God and his word. Verses 1-6 declare the glory of God's
creation and the fact the heavens and skies are enduring evidence of God's
existence and creative power."
1The heavens declare the glory of God; and the
firmament sheweth his handywork.
2Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto
night sheweth knowledge.
3There is no speech nor language, where their
voice is not heard.
4Their line is gone out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for
the sun,
5Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his
chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6His going forth is from the end of the
heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the
heat thereof."
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