[geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
- From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:09:48 -0700 (PDT)
"Nothing complicated here." Absolutly right, phil!.......oh but wait, how does
that demonstrate that Christ did not come in that generation in the life time
of those folks he said he would and was talking to again ?!
Luke 9:26. For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall
the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his
Father's, and of the holy angels. 27. But I tell you of a truth, there be some
standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of
God. 28. And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took
Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. 29. And as he
prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white
and glistering. 30. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were
Moses and Elias: The mount of transfiguration that took place 8 days latter is
not what is under discussion...how do we know?...because Christ repets the
exact same message days before he is on the cross!
Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25. And the stars of heaven
shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26. And then
shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect
from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part
of heaven. 28. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet
tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29. So ye in
like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh,
even at the doors. 30. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not
pass, till all these things be done.
What Things is He talking about?.......
16. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks,
and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. 17. And ye
shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. 18. But there shall not an hair
of your head perish. (What?!..they are going to die but not a hair will
parish?!..ye part of that whole 1 Cor 15: 36. Thou fool, that which thou
sowest is not quickened, except it die:) 19. In your patience possess ye your
souls. Back to the naritive.....20. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed
with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21. Then let them
which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst
of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter
thereinto. 22. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are
written may be fulfilled. 23. But woe unto them that are with child, and to
them that give suck, in those
days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this
people. 24. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led
away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the
Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (those 666 years I keep
trying to get you to notice) 25. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in
the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with
perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26. Men's hearts failing them for
fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the
powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27. And then shall they see the Son of man
coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28. And when these things begin
to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption
draweth nigh. ( gee.... I thought redemption was already from the
cross...Hebrews 9:8) 29. And he spake to
them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30. When they now
shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at
hand. 31. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that
the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 32. Verily I say unto you, This generation
shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. 33. Heaven and earth shall pass
away: but my words shall not pass away.
The Differeence is the Apostles Belived Christ and took him at his word face
value!.....The futurist only offer up excuses for Christ why/ how Chirst did
not do exactly what He said He woudl do when he said he would do it....O ye of
little faith and understanding.
--- On Thu, 8/21/08, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 9:44 PM
Against scoffers denying the second coming of Christ. He declares the sudden
dissolution of this world and exhorts to holiness of life.
1 Behold this second epistle I write to you, my dearly beloved, in which, I
stir up by way of admonition your sincere mind: 2 That you may be mindful of
those words which I told you before from the holy prophet and of your apostles,
of the precepts of the Lord and Saviour. 3 Knowing this first: That in the last
days there shall come deceitful scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4
Saying: Where is his promise or his coming? For since the time that the fathers
slept, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they are wilfully ignorant of: That the heavens were before, and the
earth out of water and through water, consisting by the word of God: 6 Whereby
the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.
7 But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in
store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of the
ungodly men.
8 But of this one thing be not ignorant, my beloved, that one day with the Lord
is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord delayeth not his promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for
your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to
penance, 10 But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief, in which the heavens
shall pass away with great violence and the elements shall be melted with heat
and the earth and the works which are in it shall be burnt up.
11 Seeing then that all these things are to be dissolved, what manner of people
ought you to be in holy conversation and godliness? 12 Looking for and hasting
unto the coming of the day of the Lord, by which the heavens being on fire
shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with the burning heat?
13 But we look for new heavens and a new earth according to his promises, in
which justice dwelleth.
Nothing complicated here.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 12:25 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
Pete,
Good questions & comments;
attachments are ziped web pages for size sake....you can view them as a web
page or you can also right clik on them and "open with" them with MS EXCELL and
print them out with legal paper the margins are already set..... I may try to
put them in pdf i just have not had the time yet.....the "resurection charts"
are the missing file from the last post......the attachments of the last post
can be printed on regular paper if you need to...they are very
importaint....for understanding even proveing the timing of redemption.
are you able to condense your views? condensing a view.. yes...demonstrating,
not merely asserting a position (priceless) from the text requires “the big
questions” with a detailed study and a considerably longer version..I’ll make
it as small as I can…( for "everything" else there is "a wind of Doctrine":-)
Are you saying Christs Presence started in 70Ad and that the 1000 years ended
in 1070 AD therefore? I will use AD70 for simplicity sake I just say this to
draw attention to this detail, AD 70 is not the fulfillment of the L&P the
end of the war was, in AD 74. The mist (Ad 70 3.5 years into the war) of one
week (7 years the war lasted) sacrifice and offering were ended...the
covenant is confirmed for the whole week or 7 years of the war ..hence " unto
the end of the war"......"unto the consummation"....
It is important to understand that since there are good and bad folk on the
earth before during and after a thousand years of Christ Reign, ( note: rev 20
is discussing the 1000 years saints reigning with Christ, not 1000 years of
Christ reigning) therefore as will all rule and power just because you are king
today does not mean everything is instantly the way you "decree" it. the point
it takes time to organize your empire. this should be no great mystery for
Christ Himself is to reign until he puts all enemies under his feet...well:
1. If the saints rein with Christ for a 1000 years then Christ himself would
have to be reigning during that same time as well....otherwise it would be hard
to reign with someone who is not reining.
2. Christ does not instantaneously “get his way” ( accomplish all enemies under
his feet) the instant He “took office”
The point: The resurrections and the judgment and Reign of Christ are all
processes at work through time not instantaneous events in time!
History demonstrates that for a 1000 years Christianity ruled supreme on the
earth. Were there bad people yes..where there bad people in the church
itself..yes..…was there false doctrines…yes….did everybody understand
everything alike ..no….but this is the kicker…There are far more "bad
people", war and false doctrine these days.....ummmChrist with saints reing a
1000 years then satan is released to compas the camp of the saints.. for 1000
years the Christan "spirit" ruled ...........Christ Kingdom is a spiritual
kingdom those that are resurected have a spiritual Body ..... The spirit of
Christ and the saints..DOMINATED much of the physical world. In fact John in
the book of Revelation is specifically writing to the 7 churches in Asia…..and
guess what ….Those 7 churches were in fact part of one of the largest and a
most wealthiest empires…it was known as the Byzantium empire…..oh yea the
church and "Christianity" ruled supreme
there and for a 1000 years…in fact, It was not even until the 1300’s that
Christianity was ruthlessly begun to be stamped out in China. After the
thousand years Satan was to be released…and guess what.. we can see it.... it
was called:
Renaissance -The humanistic revival of classical art, architecture, literature,
and learning that originated in Italy in the 14th century and later spread
throughout Europe.
It took us out of the “dark ages” where "religion" ( particularly Christianity)
and “superstition” reigned supreme….ummmm
Again Folks looking for a good time here on earth after Christ 2nd coming
missed his whole messages completely…….Set your minds on things above”…..The
“dark ages” were “so dark” because the world as a whole was not as interested
in the things of this world..there was a lot more mediation devotion and prayer
…then Came the Renaissance that cured us all and brought us into the light of
the modern thinking art, literature , Copernicanisim and Darwinism….the death
of God …..”he will go out and compass the camp of the saints”.. The emphasis in
the world changed from the hereafter to the here and now, that is what the
renaissance was all about.
I have to go to work so cannot look up the scripture where it says at the end
of the 1000 years when death has been brought to nothing, Jesus hands the
restored Creation back to his Father.
Here it is....
1Corinthinans 15: 23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24. Then cometh the end, when
he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall
have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25. For he must reign,
till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26. The last enemy that shall be
destroyed is death.
NOTE: Death is not cast into the lake of fire untill
A. after the thousand years...
B. After satan has compased the camp of the saints...(amount of time not
specified)
Revelation 20:7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be
loosed out of his prison, 8. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are
in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to
battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9. And they went up on
the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the
beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and
brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented
day and night for ever and ever. 11. And I saw a great white throne, and him
that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there
was found no place for them. 12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand
before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is
the book of life: and the dead were
judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their
works. 13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell
delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man
according to their works. 14. And death and hell were cast into the lake of
fire. This is the second death. 15. And whosoever was not found written in the
book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Text specifically states there is time after the thousand years before death
itself is cast into the lake of fire.. It does not tell us how much time after
the thousand years .The text only tells us about the first 1000 years of the
first resurrection. Nor does the text state that the first resurrection is
limited to last only a 1000 years…It does not tell us how much time the first
or the second resurrection take place over. However, it does demonstrate they
take place over time frame not instant in time or all at one time!
Now, when I look around me in the world, I do not see a world free of sin and
death, now ruled by God.
A. Of course the the world is not free of sin and death, this one never will
be the case until all the evil folks are dead!...Which will be and is
even after the 1000 years,sometime much much latter, after the beginning of
Christ reign. There are good and bad folk still living on the earth. That fact
is irrespective of a past, present or future coming?!
See Attached "copy of the first resurection" for more detail..
Thus to point out that evil and death are still in the world is moot?!..More
precisely it is a false concept about the condition of the earth after Christ
comes and reigns.
1. There are folks (good & bad) on the earth 1000 years later after Christ has
begun to reign.
2.We inherit a spiritual inheritance and a spiritual body not a physical
posterity or earth. this is the whole point to Christ comments my kingdom is
not of this world....flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom....
...This is what the Jewish leaders missed today and then...the lion lays down
with the lamb..in the land of God not the land of flesh and blood. Gods land is
spiritual not physical.
see attachment "the land" for more detail..
B. God’s rule is not one of Peace and safety here on the physical earth it is
one of Christ slaying men with the Sowrd & spirit of His mouth, Which is the
word of God. God is doing exactly what He said He would do…..bring a sword not
peace on the earth. Matthew 10:34..all This stuff you guys keep attributing to
some “anti Christ” is in fact Christ doing what He said He would do…..?! Satan
is compassing the camp of the saints on the physical earth, one day (sometime
but it is never stated how much latter but sometime latter, after that 1000
years) fire will come down and destroy him …He will be case into the lake of
Fire. After the dead in Christ are risen first 1Thessalonians 4:16. For the
Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the
archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with
what body do they come? 36. Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not
quickened, except it die: 37. And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that
body that shall be
then the “rest of the dead” will be resurrected unto damnation…
…then after all that, (1000 years and satan compasing the camp of the saints)
and only then, will death and hell itself be cast into the lake of fire………The
futurist folk keep wanting to mix everything up and just put it all together
at one time?!
I Corinthians 15: 25. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under
his feet.
26. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
In fact when you say
"If christ did not Come when he said He would in that generation in their life
time ...then there is no hope of anything!"
I would say the opposite, that what has Jesus 1000 reign achieved when we see
the world today? Proactively putting his enimies under his feet, and slaying
the world with the words of his mouth because they do not belive and thus they
will have their part in the second resurection after God has completed dividing
his sheep from the goats...beside did not you read...
Matthew 10:34. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to
send peace, but a sword. 35. For I am come to set a man at variance against
his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law
against her mother in law.
36. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37. He that loveth
father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or
daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38. And he that taketh not his
cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39. He that findeth his
life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
A future coming will also bring a future hope that Jesus will put things right.
Put things right, where?! on earth?! The kingdom is spiritual Flesh and blood
cannot inherit it or even enter into it...
We do not inherit eternal life untill after we die! We must all die phsycial
everyerone will!..The difference is we have a hope of eternal glory but only
after we die physicaly. Then we are "caught up to meet Him in the clouds there
we shall ever be". (1Thessalonians 4:17) Who cares about putting things right
in the world?!!!! The glory of the kindgom is not and cannot be seen by folks
that live and see things through the eyes of flesh and blood....the wold of the
dead is far larger then the world of the living...
..Chirst is Judgeing the nations, destorying the world of men, not building it
up or making it a better world ....?!..for what?!.... the world of the spirit
is far larger and glorius then the world of the physical world...Those who
have been resurected with their new perfected bodies dont care about the things
of this world they are gloryfied and perfected unto God ......but just in case
your wondering.. Those who have not been resurected and are dead are quite
aware of this for they can see their Glory and the Gloried ones every one looks
down on them with hissing for they are a perpetual curse.....
Yea ..LOL.....He is going to "put things right" alright, just like He "put
things right" with the Land (kingdom of Isreal)...cleanse the land of all the
sinners by destroying the land....."put things right" by destorying the
physical world that men love so much......" Colossians 3:2 Set your affections
on things above not on things on the earth"
NOTE: 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18...
Christ is not comming back to set foot on the earth and Our home is not on the
earth our home is above the earth ...this world is a place to be
ruled, dominated and destroyed, not loved!........
If Christ did not come and do what he said He would do when He & the L&P said
he would .. then.there is absolutly nothing and no reason to expect or hope for
anything from some "Jesus Dude"
--- On Thu, 8/21/08, PETER CHARLTON <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: PETER CHARLTON <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 12:06 PM
Thanks for this Allen, yes, please do send me the missing file.
This will all take some reading and studying, are you able to condense your
views?
Are you saying Christs Presence started in 70Ad and that the 1000 years ended
in 1070 AD therefore?
When did all this happen :- 7 Now as soon as the thousand years have been
ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, 8 and he will go out to
mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma´gog, to
gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the
sea. 9 And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp
of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and
devoured them. 10 And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the
lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet
[already were.
I have to go to work so cannot look up the scripture where it says at the end
of the 1000 years when death has been brought to nothing, Jesus hands the
restored Creation back to his Father.
Now, when I look around me in the world, I do not see a world free of sin and
death, now ruled by God.
In fact when you say
If christ did not Come when he said He would in that generation in their life
time ...then there is no hope of anything!
I would say the opposite, that what has Jesus 1000 reign achieved when we see
the world today?
A future coming will also bring a future hope that Jesus will put things right.
Pete
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