Bernie do not appeal to heliocentric science for support.. as I show below Why assume an extra rotation, when the full translation cycle explains what we see - the same face of the Moon. The full translation cycle has the same effect as one rotation, but it's not called a rotation ( I looked in up in Jewiepedia ). It is not an assumption.. and you should look from above and outside of the earth, not from the earth. Rotation is a geometric action which need not involve any material object. Then your pedia is wrong. But Wiki is not wrong Bernie .. Here is Wiki's specifications for the moon.. You will read it has a synchronous rotation .. equal to its orbit heliocentrically speaking of course. I highlighted it in brown ... Sidereal rotation period 27.321 582 d (synchronous) Also from Wiki I find this line.. which should convince you.. The axis of rotation of the moon is not the same as the axis of its orbit... see below. The mean inclination of the lunar orbit to the ecliptic plane is 5.145°. The rotation axis of the Moon is also not perpendicular to its orbital plane, so the lunar equator is not in the plane of its orbit, but is inclined to it by a constant value of 6.688° (this is the obliquity). One might be tempted to think that as a result of the precession of the Moon's orbit plane, the angle between the lunar equator and the ecliptic would vary between the sum (11.833°) and difference (1.543°) of these two angles. However, as was discovered by Jacques Cassini in 1721, the rotation axis of the Moon precesses with the same rate as its orbit plane, but is 180° out of phase (see Cassini's Laws). Thus, although the rotation axis of the Moon is not fixed with respect to the stars, the angle between the ecliptic and the lunar equator is always 1.543°. Designations Adjective "lunar" Orbital characteristics Perigee 363 104 km (0.002 4 AU) Apogee 405 696 km (0.002 7 AU) Semi-major axis 384 399 km (0.002 57 AU) Eccentricity 0.054 9 Orbital period 27.321 582 d (27 d 7 h 43.1 min) Synodic period 29.530 588 d (29 d 12 h 44.0 min) Average orbital speed 1.022 km/s Inclination 5.145° to the ecliptic (between 18.29° and 28.58° to Earth's equator) Longitude of ascending node regressing by one revolution in 18.6 years Argument of perigee progressing by one revolution in 8.85 years Satellite of Earth Physical characteristics Mean radius 1 737.10 km (0.273 Earths) Equatorial radius 1 738.14 km (0.273 Earths) Polar radius 1 735.97 km (0.273 Earths) Flattening 0.001 25 Circumference 10 921 km (equatorial) Surface area 3.793 × 107 km² (0.074 Earths) Volume 2.195 8 × 1010 km³ (0.020 Earths) Mass 7.347 7 × 1022 kg (0.012 3 Earths) Mean density 3 346.4 kg/m³ Equatorial surface gravity 1.622 m/s² (0.165 4 g) Escape velocity 2.38 km/s Sidereal rotation period 27.321 582 d (synchronous) Equatorial rotation velocity 4.627 m/s Axial tilt 1.542 4° (to ecliptic) 6.687° (to orbit plane) Albedo 0.12 Surface temp. equator 85°N min mean max 100 K 220 K 390 K 70 K 130 K 230 K Apparent magnitude −2.5 to −12.9 −12.74 (mean full moon) Angular diameter 29.3 to 34.1 arcminutes Why does everything have to rotate? Who said it does.. Plus it sure would be quite a coincidence for the moon's rotation to be such that we always only see one side of the moon, Well coincidence has nothing to do with mechanics,,,,,especially when the Earth would be rotating also.. and the earth, being stationary or spinning like a top, would make no difference to the moons facing the earth at all times.. Not a spit of difference. Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Brauer To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:39 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moon Rotation Philip, Why assume an extra rotation, when the full translation cycle explains what we see - the same face of the Moon. The full translation cycle has the same effect as one rotation, but it's not called a rotation ( I looked in up in Jewiepedia ). Why does everything have to rotate? Plus it sure would be quite a coincidence for the moon's rotation to be such that we always only see one side of the moon, especially when the Earth would be rotating also. It actually also works against heliocentrists because who could believe their synchronized Moon rotation explanation? The odds are way against that type of order in an exploding universe. Bernie --- On Mon, 11/24/08, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moon Rotation To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:52 PM So the movement of the Moon is a translation, but there is no rotation. The Moon is fixed within the rotating firmament. Bernie Bernie, look again at Pauls moon and see it orbit.. you will see it rotate/ Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: Bernie Brauer To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:19 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moon Rotation Paul, Yes, that looks like a fair representation. "All rigid body movements are rotations, translations, or combinations of the two." So the movement of the Moon is a translation, but there is no rotation. The Moon is fixed within the rotating firmament. Bernie --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Moon Rotation To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 11:56 PM Bernie B You said to Philip -- From Bernie Brauer Sat Nov 22 07:58:12 2008 If you go dwon to your local day-care centre ( where toddlers get dropped off so mummie can go to work to help daddy pay 66% ALL-TOTAL taxation ) you will see a toy where you can slide a wooden sphere along a circular thin metal rod. So the sphere is fixed upon the circular rod and the same point always shows inward. I have attached an illustration of what I think you have described but with the small addition of a straight, thin, light, paper tube attached to the wooden ball so as to indicate visually that it always points to the centre. The ball -- with the indicator -- is shown travelling around the circular rod in a clock-wise direction. Is this a fair representation? Please indicate any reservations or arguments you may have. Paul D ------------------------------------------------------------ Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter Now.