[lit-ideas] Re: Shadows, Fog, and Money

From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 16:50:42 -0400
> [Original Message]
> From: <Eternitytime1@xxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 6/12/2005 12:52:53 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Shadows, Fog, and Money
>
>  
> In a message dated 6/11/2005 12:34:23 PM Central Daylight Time, 
pas@xxxxxxxx 
> writes:
>
> I  don't understand why atheists (I mean REAL true, down and dirty,  
> I-KNOW-GOD-DOESN'T-exist Atheists) bother with life and why they aren't  
> complete anarchists and nihilists. The cold fact is that no matter WHAT 
you 
> do on this Earth, you are going to die. If you truly believe that 
there's 
> nothing after, then what's the point? And why on Earth (pun  intended)
would 
> you care about history or future history. You're here for  max 110 years, 
> all else is pointless, without interest and if you are  actually
concerned 
> with it, then you aren't  sure.
>
>
>
>
> Greetings to all,
>  
> Some of the aspects of Humanism might assist exploring the wonderment  of
why 
> people bother to continue to live even if they are atheistically 
inclined 
> (or, at least, do not believe in a Supreme Being or G-d). 


A.A. I knew people are stupid.  Now I now they're assholes.  Why does no
one explore the wonderment of why people bother to continue to live if they
are religious?  Why don't religious people just kill themselves and go and
meet their maker, take the expressway to paradise?  I just hope to god that
it's better in Europe than in these backwaters called the United States,
California and New York excepted.  Thanks at least to Eric for getting it
that the wonderment is simply in being alive, not in believing in some
tooth fairy who tells us when to fart and when not to.


Andy Amago




>  
> You might take a look at what it means to be a Humanist.
>  
> Some of the ones who I know personally have varying beliefs on The
Universe  
> and people's inter-connectivity with each other.  There does seem to be a

> more relaxed allowance towards entertaining differing ideas without 
judgement 
> towards one or the other.
>  
> It's been intriguing, in a sense, because there does seem to be a 
difference 
> between a "humanist" and an "atheist".  Maybe more the sense  that a
Humanist 
> believes in People and in the concept of how if we don't care  enough to
take 
> care of Our World, no one else will swoop down and do it for  us...and so 
> they basically muster their wits, gird up their loins <g>,  roll up their
sleeves 
> and dig deep into whatever passion or gift there is within  to share with
the 
> Other.
>  
> Those espousing this point of view are, even, groupie enough to have what
is 
> kind of a  'denomination'.  Their "Celebrants" are certified  (at least
in 
> the American Humanist Society) to perform weddings, etc.  The  list of
who 
> considers themselves a Humanist and what they have been trying to  say/do
is (to 
> me) kind of an interesting way to life a life.
>  
> It's been intriguing to me, for a number of reasons.  One aspect of  the
Boy 
> Scouts in the USA has been discussion by those who are Humanists to be a 
part 
> of BSA.  (in the USA--some of the overseas branches are different and 
follow 
> more of Baden Powell's philosophy so as to allow someone who is a 
Humanist 
> to be a part of Scouting.)  The discussions on pros and cons of  allowing
for 
> that point of view within the BSA are kind of fascinating...and so  I
have been 
> doing some research on Humanism.  
>  
> That was just to say that the questions being asked are, to me,
absolutely  
> <g> relevant and have great implications in the world at large--perhaps 
even 
> beyond Our List and quest for going deep within the concept of "Ideas"
and  
> their like...
>  
>  
> Here is a definition: 
> _http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/faqs.html_ 
> (http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/faqs.html) 
>
>
> As Kurt Vonnegut succinctly described: being a  Humanist means trying to 
> behave decently without expectation of rewards or  punishment after you
are dead. 
> Humanism is a progressive lifestance that, without supernaturalism,
affirms  
> our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal
fulfillment  
> that aspire to the greater good of humanity. (this is the official
statement 
> of  belief from the American  Humanist Society) 
> Here are some other definitions of Humanism: 
> Humanism is a rational philosophy informed by science,  inspired by art,
and 
> motivated by compassion. Affirming the dignity of each  human being, it 
> supports the maximization of individual liberty and  opportunity
consonant with 
> social and planetary responsibility. It advocates  the extension of
participatory 
> democracy and the expansion of the open  society, standing for human
rights 
> and social justice. Free of  supernaturalism, it recognizes human beings
as a 
> part of nature and holds that  valuesâ??be they religious, ethical,
social, or 
> politicalâ??have their source in  human experience and culture. Humanism
thus 
> derives the goals of life from  human need and interest rather than from 
> theological or ideological  abstractions, and asserts that humanity must
take 
> responsibility for its own  destiny. â?¢ The Humanist Magazine  
> Humanism is a democratic and ethical lifestance which affirms that  human 
> beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to 
their own 
> lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through  an
ethics 
> based on human and other natural values in a spirit of reason and  free 
> inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not 
accept 
> supernatural views of reality. â?¢ The International Humanist and 
Ethical Union 
> Humanism is an approach to life based on reason and our common  humanity, 
> recognizing that moral values are properly founded on human nature  and 
> experience alone. â?¢ The Bristol Humanist Group 
> Humanism is: A joyous alternative to religions that believe in a  
> supernatural god and life in a hereafter. Humanists believe that this is
the  only life 
> of which we have certain knowledge and that we owe it to ourselves  and
others 
> to make it the best life possible for ourselves and all with whom  we
share 
> this fragile planet. A belief that when people are free to think for  
> themselves, using reason and knowledge as their tools, they are best able
to  solve this 
> world's problems. An appreciation of the art, literature, music and 
crafts 
> that are our heritage from the past and of the creativity that, if 
nourished, 
> can continuously enrich our lives. Humanism is, in sum, a  philosophy of
those 
> in love with life. Humanists take responsibility for their  own lives and 
> relish the adventure of being part of new discoveries, seeking  new
knowledge, 
> exploring new options. Instead of finding solace in  prefabricated
answers to 
> the great questions of life, humanists enjoy the  open-endedness of a
quest and 
> the freedom of discovery that this entails. â?¢  The Humanist Society of
Western 
> New York 
> Humanism is the light of my life and the fire in my soul. It is the  deep 
> felt conviction, in every fiber of my being that human love is a power 
far 
> transcending the relentless, onward rush of our largely deterministic 
cosmos. All 
> human life must seek a reason for existence within the bounds of  an
uncaring 
> physical world, and it is love coupled with empathy, democracy,  and a 
> commitment to selfless service which undergirds the faith of a humanist. 
â?¢ Bette 
> Chambers, former president of the AHA 
> Humanism is a philosophy, world view, or  lifestance based on
naturalismâ??the 
> conviction that the universe or nature is  all that exists or is real. 
> Humanism serves, for many humanists, some of the  psychological and
social functions 
> of a religion, but without belief in  deities, transcendental entities, 
> miracles, life after death, and the  supernatural. Humanists seek to
understand the 
> universe by using science and  its methods of critical inquiryâ??logical 
> reasoning, empirical evidence, and  skeptical evaluation of conjectures
and 
> conclusionsâ??to obtain reliable  knowledge. Humanists affirm that humans
have the 
> freedom to give meaning,  value, and purpose to their lives by their own
independent 
> thought, free  inquiry, and responsible, creative activity. Humanists
stand 
> for the building  of a more humane, just, compassionate, and democratic
society 
> using a  pragmatic ethics based on human reason, experience, and reliable 
> knowledgeâ??an  ethics that judges the consequences of human actions by
the 
> well-being of all  life on Earth. â?¢ Steven Schafersman 
> Humanism is a philosophy of life that considers the welfare of  humankind
- 
> rather than the welfare of a supposed God or gods - to be of  paramount 
> importance. Humanism maintains there is no evidence a supernatural  power
ever needed 
> or wanted anything from people, ever communicated to them,  or ever 
> interfered with the laws of nature to assist or harm anyone. 
> Humanism's focus, then, is on using human efforts to meet human needs and

> wants in this world. History shows that those efforts are most effective
when  
> they involve both compassion and the scientific method - which includes  
> reliance on reason, evidence, and free inquiry. 
> Humanism says people can find purpose in life and maximize their
long-term  
> happiness by developing their talents and using those talents for the
service  
> of humanity. Humanists believe that this approach to life is more
productive  
> and leads to a deeper and longer-lasting satisfaction than a hedonistic  
> pursuit of material or sensual pleasures that soon fade. 
> While service to others is a major focus of Humanism, recreation and  
> relaxation are not ignored, for these too are necessary for long-term
health  and 
> happiness. The key is moderation in all things. 
> Humanism considers the universe to be the result of an extremely long and

> complex evolution under immutable laws of nature. Humanists view this
natural  
> world as wondrous and precious, and as offering limitless opportunities
for  
> exploration, fascination, creativity, companionship, and joy. 
> Because science cannot now and probably never will be able to explain the

> ultimate origin or destiny of the universe, I think Humanism can include
more  
> than atheists and agnostics. The lack of definite answers to these
ultimate  
> questions leaves room for reasonable people to hypothesize about the
origin of  
> the natural universe, and even to hope for some form of life beyond this 
one. 
> In fact, two of Humanism's greatest luminaries, Thomas Paine and Robert  
> Ingersoll, maintained a hope for an afterlife. On the issue of whether
God  
> exists, Ingersoll was agnostic, and Paine believed in a deistic God who 
established 
> the laws of nature but then stepped away and never intervenes in  the
world. 
> Those beliefs did not interfere with their ability to lead  outstanding 
> humanistic lives. 
> Thus, in my opinion, people holding such views can be Humanists if they  
> believe that humanity is on its own in this world, and the lack of any 
evidence 
> for an afterlife means this life should be lived as though it's the  only
one 
> we have. â?¢ Joseph C. Sommer
> I liked these quotes, too, which dealt with Humanism: 
> Humanists recognize that it is only when people feel free to think for  
> themselves, using reason as their guide, that they are best capable of 
developing 
> values that succeed in satisfying human needs and serving human 
interests. â?¢ 
> ISAAC ASIMOV - scientist, author, and past president of the  American
Humanist 
> Association.  
> It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological
concept  
> which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal 
> outside  the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining
morality, 
> but the  charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based
effectually 
> on  sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is 
> necessary.  Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained
by fear 
> of  punishment and hope of reward after death. â?¢ ALBERT EINSTEIN -
scientist,  
> Nobel Prizewinner in physics, originator of the theory of relativity. 
> Knowing many (with varying reasons) who find the value in living, 
> Marlena in Missouri
>
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[lit-ideas] Re: Shadows, Fog, and Money

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