In a message dated 6/11/2005 12:34:23 PM Central Daylight Time, pas@xxxxxxxx writes: I don't understand why atheists (I mean REAL true, down and dirty, I-KNOW-GOD-DOESN'T-exist Atheists) bother with life and why they aren't complete anarchists and nihilists. The cold fact is that no matter WHAT you do on this Earth, you are going to die. If you truly believe that there's nothing after, then what's the point? And why on Earth (pun intended) would you care about history or future history. You're here for max 110 years, all else is pointless, without interest and if you are actually concerned with it, then you aren't sure. Greetings to all, Some of the aspects of Humanism might assist exploring the wonderment of why people bother to continue to live even if they are atheistically inclined (or, at least, do not believe in a Supreme Being or G-d). You might take a look at what it means to be a Humanist. Some of the ones who I know personally have varying beliefs on The Universe and people's inter-connectivity with each other. There does seem to be a more relaxed allowance towards entertaining differing ideas without judgement towards one or the other. It's been intriguing, in a sense, because there does seem to be a difference between a "humanist" and an "atheist". Maybe more the sense that a Humanist believes in People and in the concept of how if we don't care enough to take care of Our World, no one else will swoop down and do it for us...and so they basically muster their wits, gird up their loins <g>, roll up their sleeves and dig deep into whatever passion or gift there is within to share with the Other. Those espousing this point of view are, even, groupie enough to have what is kind of a 'denomination'. Their "Celebrants" are certified (at least in the American Humanist Society) to perform weddings, etc. The list of who considers themselves a Humanist and what they have been trying to say/do is (to me) kind of an interesting way to life a life. It's been intriguing to me, for a number of reasons. One aspect of the Boy Scouts in the USA has been discussion by those who are Humanists to be a part of BSA. (in the USA--some of the overseas branches are different and follow more of Baden Powell's philosophy so as to allow someone who is a Humanist to be a part of Scouting.) The discussions on pros and cons of allowing for that point of view within the BSA are kind of fascinating...and so I have been doing some research on Humanism. That was just to say that the questions being asked are, to me, absolutely <g> relevant and have great implications in the world at large--perhaps even beyond Our List and quest for going deep within the concept of "Ideas" and their like... Here is a definition: _http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/faqs.html_ (http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/faqs.html) As Kurt Vonnegut succinctly described: being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after you are dead. Humanism is a progressive lifestance that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity. (this is the official statement of belief from the American Humanist Society) Here are some other definitions of Humanism: Humanism is a rational philosophy informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by compassion. Affirming the dignity of each human being, it supports the maximization of individual liberty and opportunity consonant with social and planetary responsibility. It advocates the extension of participatory democracy and the expansion of the open society, standing for human rights and social justice. Free of supernaturalism, it recognizes human beings as a part of nature and holds that valuesâ??be they religious, ethical, social, or politicalâ??have their source in human experience and culture. Humanism thus derives the goals of life from human need and interest rather than from theological or ideological abstractions, and asserts that humanity must take responsibility for its own destiny. â?¢ The Humanist Magazine Humanism is a democratic and ethical lifestance which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethics based on human and other natural values in a spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality. â?¢ The International Humanist and Ethical Union Humanism is an approach to life based on reason and our common humanity, recognizing that moral values are properly founded on human nature and experience alone. â?¢ The Bristol Humanist Group Humanism is: A joyous alternative to religions that believe in a supernatural god and life in a hereafter. Humanists believe that this is the only life of which we have certain knowledge and that we owe it to ourselves and others to make it the best life possible for ourselves and all with whom we share this fragile planet. A belief that when people are free to think for themselves, using reason and knowledge as their tools, they are best able to solve this world's problems. An appreciation of the art, literature, music and crafts that are our heritage from the past and of the creativity that, if nourished, can continuously enrich our lives. Humanism is, in sum, a philosophy of those in love with life. Humanists take responsibility for their own lives and relish the adventure of being part of new discoveries, seeking new knowledge, exploring new options. Instead of finding solace in prefabricated answers to the great questions of life, humanists enjoy the open-endedness of a quest and the freedom of discovery that this entails. â?¢ The Humanist Society of Western New York Humanism is the light of my life and the fire in my soul. It is the deep felt conviction, in every fiber of my being that human love is a power far transcending the relentless, onward rush of our largely deterministic cosmos. All human life must seek a reason for existence within the bounds of an uncaring physical world, and it is love coupled with empathy, democracy, and a commitment to selfless service which undergirds the faith of a humanist. â?¢ Bette Chambers, former president of the AHA Humanism is a philosophy, world view, or lifestance based on naturalismâ??the conviction that the universe or nature is all that exists or is real. Humanism serves, for many humanists, some of the psychological and social functions of a religion, but without belief in deities, transcendental entities, miracles, life after death, and the supernatural. Humanists seek to understand the universe by using science and its methods of critical inquiryâ??logical reasoning, empirical evidence, and skeptical evaluation of conjectures and conclusionsâ??to obtain reliable knowledge. Humanists affirm that humans have the freedom to give meaning, value, and purpose to their lives by their own independent thought, free inquiry, and responsible, creative activity. Humanists stand for the building of a more humane, just, compassionate, and democratic society using a pragmatic ethics based on human reason, experience, and reliable knowledgeâ??an ethics that judges the consequences of human actions by the well-being of all life on Earth. â?¢ Steven Schafersman Humanism is a philosophy of life that considers the welfare of humankind - rather than the welfare of a supposed God or gods - to be of paramount importance. Humanism maintains there is no evidence a supernatural power ever needed or wanted anything from people, ever communicated to them, or ever interfered with the laws of nature to assist or harm anyone. Humanism's focus, then, is on using human efforts to meet human needs and wants in this world. History shows that those efforts are most effective when they involve both compassion and the scientific method - which includes reliance on reason, evidence, and free inquiry. Humanism says people can find purpose in life and maximize their long-term happiness by developing their talents and using those talents for the service of humanity. Humanists believe that this approach to life is more productive and leads to a deeper and longer-lasting satisfaction than a hedonistic pursuit of material or sensual pleasures that soon fade. While service to others is a major focus of Humanism, recreation and relaxation are not ignored, for these too are necessary for long-term health and happiness. The key is moderation in all things. Humanism considers the universe to be the result of an extremely long and complex evolution under immutable laws of nature. Humanists view this natural world as wondrous and precious, and as offering limitless opportunities for exploration, fascination, creativity, companionship, and joy. Because science cannot now and probably never will be able to explain the ultimate origin or destiny of the universe, I think Humanism can include more than atheists and agnostics. The lack of definite answers to these ultimate questions leaves room for reasonable people to hypothesize about the origin of the natural universe, and even to hope for some form of life beyond this one. In fact, two of Humanism's greatest luminaries, Thomas Paine and Robert Ingersoll, maintained a hope for an afterlife. On the issue of whether God exists, Ingersoll was agnostic, and Paine believed in a deistic God who established the laws of nature but then stepped away and never intervenes in the world. Those beliefs did not interfere with their ability to lead outstanding humanistic lives. Thus, in my opinion, people holding such views can be Humanists if they believe that humanity is on its own in this world, and the lack of any evidence for an afterlife means this life should be lived as though it's the only one we have. â?¢ Joseph C. Sommer I liked these quotes, too, which dealt with Humanism: Humanists recognize that it is only when people feel free to think for themselves, using reason as their guide, that they are best capable of developing values that succeed in satisfying human needs and serving human interests. â?¢ ISAAC ASIMOV - scientist, author, and past president of the American Humanist Association. It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. â?¢ ALBERT EINSTEIN - scientist, Nobel Prizewinner in physics, originator of the theory of relativity. Knowing many (with varying reasons) who find the value in living, Marlena in Missouri ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html