You don't know how silly you sound, Irene. Berating me for being incorrect and misinformed when right below is an analyses of French multiculturalism published by the United Nations. You obviously didn't read it, but you kept it in the note you posted. That the French have pursued multiculturalism is very very very (to borrow from Geary) well known, but you might have to crack a book or a journal article or some other report to know that. . The leaders, the people setting the policy established France as a multicultural nation (read the UNESCO report), but as I wrote before, the common people, the French man in the street, never accepted it. Therefore, multiculturalism didn't work. It didn't work in France. It didn't work in Holland. It isn't going to work anywhere, and yet this is a great Liberal ideal. I have followed multiculturalism for years (as I've written before) both here in California where La Raza is the multicultural concern and in Europe. Lawrence. _____ From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andy Amago Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:12 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: At War with Ourselves Lawrence, this is where you're wrong. France never wanted to be a multicultural society. They needed workers to do the jobs the French didn't want to do, so they imported people. The problem happened when the imported people had children, the children were born and grew up in France. They were French, they spoke French, but they were not given any of the rights of French citizens. They were shut up in housing so inferior even the police wouldn't go there. They had inferior education, minimal job opportunities, and generally few or no options. They wanted a piece of the French pie, as in education and jobs, and were denied, so they rioted. To say the French wanted multiculturalism is just factually incorrect, misinformed. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Helm To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 3/2/2006 7:20:20 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: At War with Ourselves I looked at your sites. The following from UNESCO is clearer about the status of multiculturalism in France: http://portal.unesco.org/shs/en/ev.php-URL_ID=2779 <http://portal.unesco.org/shs/en/ev.php-URL_ID=2779&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECT ION=201.html> &URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html This abstract will refer you to page 77 of a 104 page report on Multiculturalism from the International Journal on Multicultural Societies, (IJMS), Vol 5, No. 1. France is described as a de-facto Multicultural society. One of your articles says they arent really; which is what I wrote. The French boots on the ground dont accept multiculturalism. I used a French word sabots rather than boots or galoshes, but I assumed that sentence would be understood. I still dont know what your problem is. France wanted to be a Multicultural society. Multiculturalism fits one of the modern Liberal ideals. Multiculturalism doesnt work. It isnt working in France and it isnt working in Holland. I dont believe it will work anyplace. Lawrence _____ From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of JUDITH EVANS Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:50 PM To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: At War with Ourselves Ah. I see. Your ideas about France and multiculturalism come from frontpagemag.com. It's my sense that they either don't understand the French *anti* multicultural heritage or seek to ignore it. I quote someone whose politics I don't know, who does seem to know about France: " The essential point is that multiculturalism has never been tried in France. On the contrary, France's problems are a manifestation of the failure of its flawed attempt at integration over half a century or so. " http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/11/14/1131951095194.html Below is an indirect link (search hit 1) to a piece by Marty Schain ("Politics, immigration and multiculturalism in France and the United States"): you might find it instructive. http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?p=France+%2Bmulticulturalism+%2BSchain <http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?p=France+%2Bmulticulturalism+%2BSchain&pr ssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=my-vert-web-top&x=wrt&meta=vc%3D> &prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=my-vert-web-top&x=wrt&meta=vc%3D Judy Evans, Cardiff