[lit-ideas] Re: At War with Ourselves
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:29:05 -0800
You don't know how silly you sound, Irene. Berating me for being incorrect
and misinformed when right below is an analyses of French multiculturalism
published by the United Nations. You obviously didn't read it, but you kept
it in the note you posted. That the French have pursued multiculturalism is
very very very (to borrow from Geary) well known, but you might have to
crack a book or a journal article or some other report to know that. . The
leaders, the people setting the policy established France as a multicultural
nation (read the UNESCO report), but as I wrote before, the common people,
the French man in the street, never accepted it. Therefore,
multiculturalism didn't work. It didn't work in France. It didn't work in
Holland. It isn't going to work anywhere, and yet this is a great Liberal
ideal. I have followed multiculturalism for years (as I've written before)
both here in California where La Raza is the multicultural concern and in
Europe.
Lawrence.
_____
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andy Amago
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 5:12 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: At War with Ourselves
Lawrence, this is where you're wrong. France never wanted to be a
multicultural society. They needed workers to do the jobs the French didn't
want to do, so they imported people. The problem happened when the imported
people had children, the children were born and grew up in France. They
were French, they spoke French, but they were not given any of the rights of
French citizens. They were shut up in housing so inferior even the police
wouldn't go there. They had inferior education, minimal job opportunities,
and generally few or no options. They wanted a piece of the French pie, as
in education and jobs, and were denied, so they rioted. To say the French
wanted multiculturalism is just factually incorrect, misinformed.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 3/2/2006 7:20:20 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: At War with Ourselves
I looked at your sites. The following from UNESCO is clearer about the
status of multiculturalism in France:
http://portal.unesco.org/shs/en/ev.php-URL_ID=2779
<http://portal.unesco.org/shs/en/ev.php-URL_ID=2779&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECT
ION=201.html> &URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html This abstract will
refer you to page 77 of a 104 page report on Multiculturalism from the
International Journal on Multicultural Societies, (IJMS), Vol 5, No. 1.
France is described as a de-facto Multicultural society. One of your
articles says they arent really; which is what I wrote. The French boots
on the ground dont accept multiculturalism. I used a French word sabots
rather than boots or galoshes, but I assumed that sentence would be
understood.
I still dont know what your problem is. France wanted to be a
Multicultural society. Multiculturalism fits one of the modern Liberal
ideals. Multiculturalism doesnt work. It isnt working in France and it
isnt working in Holland. I dont believe it will work anyplace.
Lawrence
_____
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of JUDITH EVANS
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:50 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: At War with Ourselves
Ah. I see. Your ideas about France and multiculturalism come from
frontpagemag.com. It's my sense that they either don't understand the
French *anti* multicultural heritage or seek to ignore it.
I quote someone whose politics I don't know, who does seem to know about
France:
" The essential point is that multiculturalism has never been tried in
France. On the contrary, France's problems are a manifestation of the
failure of its flawed attempt at integration over half a century or so. "
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/11/14/1131951095194.html
Below is an indirect link (search hit 1) to a piece by Marty Schain
("Politics, immigration and multiculturalism in France and the United
States"): you might find it instructive.
http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?p=France+%2Bmulticulturalism+%2BSchain
<http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?p=France+%2Bmulticulturalism+%2BSchain&pr
ssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=my-vert-web-top&x=wrt&meta=vc%3D>
&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=my-vert-web-top&x=wrt&meta=vc%3D
Judy Evans, Cardiff
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