[lit-ideas] Re: At War with Ourselves
- From: JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 23:15:12 EST
How does this strike you guys for multiculturalism?
<<OTTAWA (Reuters) - Multiculturalism and religious freedom trumped safety
concerns in a Canadian Supreme Court decision on Thursday that will allow
orthodox Sikh students to carry traditional daggers to school. >>
_http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060302/india_nm/india239031;_ylt=ApvHEnVg49fScEt
Swra6iUADW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl_
(http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060302/india_nm/india239031;_ylt=ApvHEnVg49fScEtSwra6iUADW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMT
BiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)
Julie Krueger
========Original Message========
Subj: [lit-ideas] Re: At War with Ourselves Date: 3/2/06 9:33:45 P.M.
Central Standard Time From: _lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx) To: _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Sent on:
Well, I think weâve just about beaten this insignificant quibble to death.
Actually itâs been a sort of moving quibble. You werenât specific in the
beginning, just a vague indefinite something or other â much like Ireneâs
vagueness; then as time went on you seemed to pick something you liked and
there
weâve been
France is multicultural. We agree on that. The French people donât like
it. We agree on that. It doesnât work. I think we agree on that, but
where
we donât agree is whether the French leadership approved of
multiculturalism.
The EU constitution required multiculturalism. Jacques Chirac and the other
French leaders praised the constitution and urged its acceptance. But the
French people roundly defeated it to a very large extent because if this very
same multiculturalism. Can we agree on that?
_http://www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=306&language_id=1_
(http://www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=306&language_id=1)
Lawrence
____________________________________
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of JUDITH EVANS
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 6:38 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: At War with Ourselves
LH>A multicultural society means that the society accepts multiple cultures
*At last* -- and, agreed.
LH> If you go to France you donâtâ have to strive to be like other
Frenchmen, learn the language, learn LH>French history, or learn French
politics.
France set its face against such policies (*hence the banning of headscarves
-- and Jewish religious emblems -- in schools there*). The French tradition
of integration is that one is, whatever else one is, primarily and above all
else, *French*. The "Jacobin tradition" is of a unitary culture.
LH> You can be a Muslim and continue to speak Arabic and itâs okay.
so I should bloody well think -- even Jacobinism allows that. What the
French tradiion seeks to ban and in some instances does is the intrusion of
Muslim tradition into the public sphere and the secular state (*e.g.
headscarves
in schools*).
LH>Muslims were not tasked with become Frenchmen and women.
NONSENSE
LH>Iâm surprised all you liberals are having so much trouble with this.
I'm having problems with your ignorance about France.
LH>You should be saying, âoh yes, it will work.â
I'm saying it hasn't really been tried in France.
LH> Isnât it racist to say that multiculturalism wonât work?
LH>Do you think itâs okay for those French Caucasians to tell those
dark-skinned Arabs that they have LH>to be just like them?
French "colour-etc. blindness", integrationism, is a noble liberal ideal
that has failed, of recent decades, in that immigrant groups have become and
remained socially disadvantaged, marginalized, excluded. They live in ghettoes
like those of the US. The British and American political-liberal ideal, more
pluralist, has perhaps coped better. But I admire the universalist
notion/ideal that says a black Frenchman and a white Frenchman are French
first and
foremost, that would refuse a hyphenation if it could.
Judy Evans, Cardiff
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