Jack, The points you make in this posting are perfectly reasonable, and you know that I agree with them, but Mike is not currently able to post in to this group to defend himself. Take it up with him again, God willing, later on, but for the moment it is not fair to do so. All, Can I ask that you now seriously consider my contention that since the Moon physically travels in the opposite direction about the World in a geostatic system, either the Bible or the Apollo programme is false. WE REALLY DO NEED TO REACH CONCENSUS ON THIS ISSUE - IT IS FUNDAMENTAL TO OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THIS WHOLE AREA. Please spend a few minutes and draw for yourselves the diagrams I suggested. Think about it. You are launching a rocket to rendezvous with the Moon. Which way do you launch it? Yours in Christ, Neville. Jack Lewis <jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Dear Mike, With respect you are not able to avoid all religious discussion here! The mere fact that you state that you do not believe in God means that you believe in something else. You may remember the last time you were on the forum I spoke about getting back to basics. You believe, if I am correct, that the cosmos came about unaided and from nothing. This is an irrational position for a materialist to take. However you are happy to put your faith into that paradigm. Since it is a faith ergo it must be religious. This means that any scientific data based on this stance must be also suspect and needs to be re-evaluated and stripped of its assumptions or acknowledged that they are just assumptions. The problem is that the assumptions are soon forgotten and replaced as fact. Much of modern science and some historical, is founded on a very shaky foundation. However you are protected by the fact that you believe you will never know the truth and therefore it doesn't matter whether your science is right or wrong. I believe that the cosmos could not possibly have come into being unaided and from nothing. This is a rational position . Something must have made something - this is truly a materialist position. I believe that it was created by a Creator out of nothing. I believe that the Bible informs us about this Creator. This means that scientific data must stand up to this paradigm. Jack --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!