[lit-ideas] Re: Song of Myself
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 07:02:51 -0700
Well, Phil, perhaps you're right. I've been handicapped by the pseudonymous
nature of the people on Lit-Ideas. They are quiet and secretive about their
beliefs until I apply a term they don't like and then they tell me I am all
wet. As it happens I apply my terms to the squeaky wheels and tend to
forget the others. Who froths eloquently from a Leftist/Pacifist standpoint
other than Andreas, Irene/Andy, and Mike? There are one or two others that
speak up angrily from a Leftist point of view from time to time, but they
aren't ongoing or as clear as the others and I tend to lose track of them.
I should qualify that to say that I don't find the political statements of
Andreas, Irene/Andy & Mike at all clear. Mike gets ethereal about his
pacifism. Andreas and Andy/Irene both hate America, Israel and their wars
until I point out their consistent hostility to just America & Israel and
then they both produce a Militant Islamic organization that they also hate,
usually Al Quaeda. Their Leftism seems clearer than their pacifism but at
times they claim things that are pacifistic -- especially Andy/Irene lately.
In short, your complaint about my imprecise application of the terms Leftism
& Pacifism is in my opinion a response to the imprecise statements coming
from said Leftists and Pacifists. I can't manage to feel guilty about it.
The only person on Lit-Ideas that I've met is Austin Meredith, a pacifist of
sorts. He like you, if I recall correctly isn't an utter pacifist. There
are certain situations that would cause you & he to support a war. In your
case you would support war or a surgical strike, if I recall your statements
accurately, against Iran to prevent their acquisition of nuclear weapons.
I'm sorry but I have difficulty seeing you as a pacifist once you've said
that. It seems for both you and Austin more a case of not wanting to fight
all the wars that others want to fight than not wanting to fight any at all.
You would go quite bit further than I would along the path of accepting
abuse, dishonor, minor attacks, before you said 'enough is enough, let's
fight,' but so what? Disagreeing about the wars we would fight isn't quite
the same as disagreeing over the matter of pacifism.
I hadn't looked at the Lit-Ideas photos for a while so I did that this
morning. Every photo I looked at from June forward was pseudonymous. The
impression I had (no doubt imaginary) was of people saying, "If you already
know who I am then you know who I am. If you don't already know who I am
then you really don't need to."
So I suppose if I had identified myself as Alexandre Potemkin and written
the same note, a number of people who don't normally speak up could speak up
and chastise poor Alexandre for not getting their politics quite right. As
it is they can speak up and say that to me, but then they've done that
before -- before slipping back into silence and not being very explicit
about what it is they do believe while they are engaged in chastising me.
I was impressed by the knight Jack Sprat posturing nobly with his lance
aglitter looking for enemies. So I put myself forward provocatively as an
"enemy" of Leftists and Pacifists who claim to favor world peace but 1) have
no plan for achieving it and 2) object, unreasonably in my opinion, to the
people who do. Can it be that Jack agrees with me and can't find it in his
nature to oppose me? Or is there some other explanation?
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Enns
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 5:26 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Song of Myself
Lawrence Helm wrote:
"Nevertheless I don't see why everything I've written in that note
wouldn't have been just as understandable if I'd sent it under a
pseudonym. What am I missing here?"
Well, there are two ways of addressing the problem. On many occasions,
people on this list have complained that the beliefs you attribute to
groups like 'Leftists' or 'Pacifists' are inaccurate because in
particular cases your claims aren't true. I am a pacifist and often
what you say of pacifists simply doesn't apply to me. If your claims
about 'Pacifists' are to have meaning, they must take into account what
most pacifists actually believe. Put differently, beliefs are
meaningful insofar as they are held by particular people. Terms like
'Leftists' can function much like pseudonyms in that they are constantly
in danger of not being accurate reflections of what actual individuals
really believe. If the majority of 'Leftists' would not be the authors
of a particular belief, there is no authority to the claim that
'Leftists' hold such a belief.
The other way of addressing the problem is the one I mentioned earlier.
Amago and Spratt can post to this list all sorts of claims but there can
be no certainty that these claims are the beliefs of the individuals
behind the pseudonym. In this way, these pseudonyms may contribute what
has the form of a reason but can't be a reason. Reasons are reasons
because someone believes they are reasons to do such and such or to
refrain from doing this or that. If there is no author for the
statement 'I believe that ...' then there is no authority for the claims
to be reasons. Reasons and claims regarding morality have their force
through lives lived, and if we are confronted not with a lived life but
a portrayed life, then we only have the form of reasons, lacking
authority and ultimately meaningfulness.
I have met Walter and he can hold me accountable for all the things I
have posted to this list, but does anyone believe that there are
individuals who we can hold accountable, in the same manner, for the
things posted by Amago and Spratt? Whatever is contributed to the list
by these pseudonyms cannot have the authority of being beliefs and so
can never have the authority of being reasons for moral activity. Moral
reasons depend on moral actors who authorize them. Where there is only
the form of an actor, there is only the pretence of moral reasoning.
Sincerely,
Phil Enns
Toronto, ON
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